War in Iraq
What do you think about the US being involved in a war with Iraq?
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Its the CHEAP OIL, stupid!
Frankly acknowledging that America is a small portion of the world's population but uses a large percentage of the world's oil and other natural resources, Poppy Bush is famous for having said, "The American lifestyle is not negotiable."
McMansions for two-person families, a transportation infrastructure based on 6,000-pound SUVs carrying single individuals, cheap Chinese goods at Wal-Mart and cheap Mexican food in the supermarket - all of this is not anything America intends to give up. We're king of the hill, and we intend to stay that way, even if it means going to war to keep it.
At the core of this is oil. When the administration's people say American involvement in Iraq is "not about oil," they're often responding to charges that they're only going after profits for American oil companies. They speak truth, in that context, when they say the war isn't about revenues from oil - the profits will only be a desirable side-effect. What the war is really about is the survival of the American lifestyle, which, in their world-view, is both non-negotiable and based almost entirely on access to cheap oil.
Most of the world has now been digitally "X-rayed" using satellites, seismic data, and computers, in the process of locating 41,000 oil fields. Over 641,000 exploratory wells have been drilled, and virtually all fields which show any promise are well-known and factored into the one-trillion barrel estimate the oil industry uses for world oil reserves.
And of that 1 trillion barrels, Saudi Arabia has about 259 billion barrels and Iraq is estimated by the US Government to have 432 billion barrels, although at the moment only about 112 billion barrels have been tapped. The rest, virgin oil, can be pumped out for as little as $1.50 a barrel, making Iraqi oil not only the most abundant in the world, but the most profitable. This at a time when virtually all American oil fields (except the Alaska North Slope) have dwindled past the Hubbert Peak into $5 to $25 per barrel pumping costs.
Thus, we see that our "lifestyle" - our ability to maintain our auto-based transportation systems, our demand for big, warm houses, and our appetite for a wide variety of cheap foods and consumer goods - is currently based on access to cheap oil. If we assume that the American people won't tolerate a change in that lifestyle, then we can extrapolate that our very security as a stable democracy is dependent on cheap oil.
Viewed in this context, the rush to seize control of the Middle East - where about a third of the planet's oil is located - makes perfect sense. It's a noble endeavor, in that view, maintaining the strength and vitality of the American Empire.
Of course, there are a few cracks in this vision. In order to have such a new American century, we must be willing to foul our waters and air with the byproducts of oil combustion and oil-fired power plants, and tolerate the explosions in cancer they bring. We must be willing to gamble that raising CO2 levels won't destabilize the atmosphere and tip us into a new ice age by shutting down the Great Conveyor Belt warm-water currents in the Atlantic. We must be willing to hold the rest of the world off at the point of a bayonet, and to take on the England/Northern Ireland and Israel/Palestine type of terrorism that inevitably comes when people decide to assert nationalism and confront empire.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0311-07.htm
-- Rev. Ike from Island Pond on 5/9/03; 7:32:28 AM
Seig Heil, Ya all!
U.S. Soldiers Fire on Iraq Demonstrators Again
BAGHDAD, Iraq - For the second time this week, U.S. soldiers fired on anti-American protesters Wednesday in the city of Fallujah; the mayor said two people were killed and 14 wounded.
The shooting in Fallujah, 30 miles west of Baghdad, occurred less than 48 hours after gunfire during a demonstration Monday night that hospital officials said killed 13 Iraqis.
About 1,000 people marched down the city's main street Wednesday to protest the earlier incident, stopping in front of a battalion headquarters of the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division - a former office of Saddam's Baath Party.
American officers said U.S soldiers in the compound and in a passing convoy opened fire after some protesters started throwing rocks and some shots were fired at the troops.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0430-01.htm
US Troops Shoot and Kill Iraqi Protesters, Including Kids
AP reports, "The director of the local hospital said 13 people were killed and 75 injured" when "American soldiers opened fire on Iraqi protesters" Monday night in Fallujah, a town west of Baghdad. Dr. Ahmed Ghanim al-Ali, director of Fallujah General Hospital, said the dead included "three boys under 11 years old. He said his medical crews were shot at when they went to retrieve the injured...US troops in the town were headquartered in a schoolhouse. Local Iraqis said an anti-American demonstration took place Monday by students between the ages of 5 and 20 to get the soldiers to leave the school so classes could resume Tuesday." Col. Arnold Bray of the 82nd Airborne Division "said the soldiers had been shot at by someone in the crowd. The al-Jazeera television station, quoting local residents, said the US troops opened fire after someone threw a rock at the school. Residents said the shooting continued for at least 30 minutes."
-- Lamda Pi from Hanover on 4/30/03; 6:00:51 PM
Holy Kent State folks! Holy My Lai all all over again?
US TROOPS OPEN FIRE ON ANTI-US PROTESTERS; AT LEAST 13 DEAD...
Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 by Reuters
Anger Mounts After U.S. Troops Kill 13 Iraqi Protesters
by Edmund Blair
FALLUJA, Iraq - U.S. soldiers killed at least 13 Iraqi civilians who marched on a school west of Baghdad to demand the troops leave the building and get out of Iraq, doctors and witnesses said on Tuesday.
Medics said 75 were also wounded in the march by more than 200 protesters on the school after Muslim prayers on Monday evening in Falluja, 30 miles from the Iraqi capital. Some witnesses put the death toll as high as 17.
Residents said the marchers were unarmed.
http://commondreams.org/headlines03/0429-01.htm
My Lai village remembers its darkest day 35 years on
QUANG NGAI ˜ More than one thousand villagers and visitors on Sunday attended a solemn memorial dedicated to the My Lai massacre, when 504 innocent civilians in My Lai village where they
http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/2003-03/17/Stories/06.htm
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-- Viet Nam Vet from South Reading, VT on 4/29/03; 6:26:29 PM
Its the water, stupid!
Now, why would the US Army Corps of Engineers be interested in building dams in Iraq?
Iraq has more water than most Middle Eastern nations, which led to the establishment of one of the world's earliest and most advanced civilizations. Strong, centralized governments--a phenomenon known as "hydraulic despotism"--emerged because of the need for organization and for technology in order to exploit the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Archaeologists believe that the high point in the development of the irrigation system occurred about 500 A.D., when a network of irrigation canals permitted widespread cultivation that made the river basin into a regional granary.
http://www.1upinfo.com/country-guide-study/iraq/iraq54.html
NEW
The DOD contractor hotline for support of potential operations to control and mitigate damage to Iraq's oil facilities may be reached by calling
1-866-461-5171.
If you are interested in being included on the master bidder list, please be prepared to provide the following information: the name of your company; the name of your point of contact and his or her telephone number; the type of business your company performs; and where you are located.
http://www.swf.usace.army.mil/
-- Undergrad Student from Hanover on 4/27/03; 6:45:46 PM
Another GOP Hypocrite Exposed: Richard Delgaudio Pleads Guilty to Child Porn
"Republican activist Richard A. Delgaudio, a longtime Northern Virginia-based fundraiser for conservative causes and personalities, was sentenced to two years' probation yesterday after pleading guilty to a child pornography charge. Delgaudio was charged with taking sexually explicit photographs of a 16-year-old girl. He paid the girl -- a single mother and high school dropout -- by the hour for photo shoots at the Deluxe Plaza Motel in Baltimore... Delgaudio, 50, heads an array of conservative activist groups... He is listed as president of Legal Affairs Council Inc., which had $2.6 million in revenue in 2001... Delgaudio also is listed as chairman and director of the United States Intelligence Council and president of National Security Center Inc." The Legal Affairs Council helped pay for the defense of Caspar Weinberger and Oliver North. Knight Ridder's Elizabeth Wellington reports that this hypocrite called Clinton a "lawbreaker and terrible example to our nation's young people."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27774-2003Apr23.html
-- Grad Student from Hanover on 4/26/03; 7:11:25 PM
The WMD Fairy
Pity the Bush Administration. They swore to the world that Saddam had massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons all primed and ready to launch. Indeed, we were told that we had to attack due to the dire threats these horrible weapons posed. Then comes the war and 100,000 British and American troops tramping through Iraq with seemingly an equal number of embedded reporters and wouldn't you know it, no WMD anywhere. Why we were led to believe that you couldn't take a walk in Iraq without tripping over the damn things. But as luck would have it, just as the whole world was starting to shout, "Liar, liar, pants on fire!" the military gets a visit from the WMD Fairy.
WMD? Why yes we had them aplenty but just before you got here we destroyed them all. "Good enough for me," said the Pentagon. "Good enough for me," said the Chickenhawks. "Good enough for me," said Judith Miller of the New York Times.
Oh, and WMD Fairy, did Saddam by any chance share these weapons with Al Qaeda? "Why he certainly did," said the WMD Fairy. "Good enough for me," said the Pentagon. "Good enough for me," said the Chickenhawks. "Good enough for me," said Judith Miller of the New York Times.
It would be oh so helpful if Saddam shipped some of these nasty old weapons to Syria. "Well I'm nothing if not helpful," said the WMD Fairy. "I personally saw Saddam drive them across the border in his pickup truck when he escaped." "Good enough for me," said the Pentagon. "Good enough for me," said the Chickenhawks. "Good enough for me," said Judith Miller of the New York Times.
Wouldn't it be nice if George Bush found a Fix The Economy Fairy or a World Peace Fairy? And wouldn't it be sweet if Judith Miller kept her fantasies confined to the Easter Bunny?
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/04/23_fairies.html
SURPRISE! AMERICAN TO OVERSEE IRAQI OIL INDUSTRY...
The US is preparing to install an American chairman on a planned management team of the Iraqi oil industry, providing further ammunition to critics who have questioned the Bush administration's agenda in the Middle East.
The administration is planning to structure the potentially vast Iraqi oil industry like a US corporation, with a chairman and chief executive and a 15-strong board of international advisers.
According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, it has lined up the former chief executive of the US division of Royal Dutch/Shell, Philip Carroll, to take the job of chairman.
http://commondreams.org/headlines03/0426-02.htm
-- K.K.K. from Hanover on 4/26/03; 4:08:35 PM
Frank: It could be worse than we think. Much Worse. Quite possibly all those WMD's got looted and sold on the black market to terriorists and other rogue nations. This is what happens when you let a C- student who reads only the Bible run foreign affairs. We were all much safer and more secure when all we had to worry about was a President having oral sex in the oval office...
Two Ugly Possibilities: Bush Lied about the Existence of WMD's - or Idiot Bush's War Allowed 'Looters' to Run off with WMD's!
"With little to show after 30 days, the Bush administration is losing confidence in its prewar belief that it had strong clues pointing to the whereabouts of weapons of mass destruction concealed in Iraq, according to planners and participants in the hunt." Worst case scenario: WMD's may have been removed under cover of looting -- to be sold on the private market! "If such weapons or the means of making them have been removed from the centralized control of former Iraqi officials, high-ranking U.S. officials acknowledged, THEN THE WAR MAY PROVE TO AGGRAVATE THE PROLIFERATION THREAT THAT RESIDENT BUSH SAID HE FOUGHT TO FORESTALL... Bush launched and justified the war with a flat declaration of knowledge 'that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction'... Colin L. Powell, who took the lead public role in defending that proposition, said... that 'our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons' agents." Impeach Bush Now!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7310-2003Apr21.html
-- Rev Ike from Island Pond on 4/22/03; 6:03:45 PM
Dubya at War
We're fighting an enemy that knows no rules of law, that will wear civilian uniforms, that is willing to kill in order to continue the reign of fear of Saddam Hussein.
-- Ahh, yes, civilian uniforms... Pentagon, Mar. 25, 2003
I described them [Iraq] as the axis of evil once. I described them as an enemy until proven otherwise. They obviously, you know, desire weapons of mass destruction. I presume that he still views us as an enemy.
-- An enemy until proven otherwise? Wow, whatever happened to the idea of evidence to support that contention? And notice the unsubtle shift from "they" (Iraq) to "he" (Saddam Hussein). Ridgewood Country Club, Waco, Texas, Mar. 10, 2003
I've not made up our mind about military action.
-- Prime time press conference, White House, Mar. 6, 2003
How do you measure the benefit of freedom in Iraq? I guess, if you're an Iraqi citizen you can measure it by being able to express your mind and vote. How do you measure the consequence of taking a dictator out of -- out of power who has tried to invade Kuwait?
-- Excuse me Dubya, but your dad went to war when Iraq succeeded in invading Kuwait, prime time press conference, White House, Mar. 6, 2003
Saddam Hussein is a threat to our nation. September the 11th changed the strategic thinking, at least, as far as I was concerned, for how to protect our country. My job is to protect the American people. It used to be that we could think that you could contain a person like Saddam Hussein, that oceans would protect us from his type of terror. September the 11th should say to the American people that we're now a battlefield, that weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a terrorist organization could be deployed here at home.
-- How does hijacking domestic aircraft constitute the deployment of weapons of mass destruction? They were weapons of mass transit, Dubya, and they were ours, prime time press conference, White House, Mar. 6, 2003
It's a war in which we will hunt down those who hate America, one person at a time.
-- Broadening the definition of who America is fighting against in a way which suggests that it will be an incredibly long war, Washington, D.C., Mar. 4, 2003
It's a different kind of war than we're used to in America. It's a war that requires patience and focus.
-- I guess all those old wars were really undisciplined and unfocused, Washington, D.C., Mar. 4, 2003
It is important for the Iraqi leadership and Iraqi generals to clearly understand that if they take innocent life, if they destroy infrastructure, they will be held to account as war criminals.
-- So if the Iraqis blow up bridges to stop advancing U.S. invasion troops from entering their towns, the generals will be tried as war criminals after the war? That doesn't quite make sense. Washington, D.C., Feb. 25, 2003
America and our allies are called once again to defend the peace against an aggressive tyrant, and we accept this responsibility.
-- Sorry, I'd usually let something like this slide, but how exactly is it that Saddam Hussein is an aggressive tyrant, when Iraq hasn't engaged in conflict in 12 years? Kennesaw, Georgia, Feb. 20, 2003
REPORTER: Given the size of the protests in England over the weekend, do you have any concerns that Tony Blair might pay a serious political price for supporting you on Iraq?
DUBYA: ...First of all, you know, size of protest, it's like deciding, well, I'm going to decide policy based upon a focus group.
-- It would probably be more like responding to the majority opinion of the British and American public that a unilateral war should not be an option, but there you have it, Washington, D.C., Feb. 18, 2003
And I also want to assure [Italian Prime Minister] Silvio [Berlusconi] that should we require military action, shortly after our troops go in, will go food and medicine and supplies to the Iraqi people. We will, of course, win militarily, if we have to.
-- Is losing militarily an option? Washington, D.C., Jan. 30, 2003
Should any Iraqi officer or soldier receive an order from Saddam Hussein, or his sons, or any of the killers who occupy the high levels of their government, my advice is, don't follow that order. Because if you choose to do so, when Iraq is liberated, you will be treated, tried and persecuted as a war criminal.
-- In addition to the bellicose overtones, Dubya manages to replace "prosecuted" with "persecuted", St. Louis, Missouri, Jan. 22, 2003
All Texans are proud that our state is the home to so many fine military units, including the great 1st Calvary Division.
-- It's Cavalry Dubya, Cavalry. Calvary is the hill upon which Jesus was crucified. Fort Hood, Texas, Jan. 3, 2003
http://www.dubyaspeak.com/freshdubya.shtml
http://www.dubyaspeak.com/war.shtml
:)
-- Imperator Caesar Divifilius Georgius Augustus Dubya from Crawfish, TX on 4/21/03; 7:00:01 PM
Frank: The tragedy of this war for oil is that it did not have to happen. Bu$h and Cheeney, a C- student who reads only the Bible, and a old worn out man behind the technology curve, are leading us to disaster for no good reason. US waste can be turned into more oil than the US needs. Please read the following article:
Anything into Oil
Technological savvy could turn 600 million tons of turkey guts and other waste into 4 billion barrels of light Texas crude each year
Gory refuse, from a Butterball Turkey plant in Carthage, Missouri, will no longer go to waste. Each day 200 tons of turkey offal will be carted to the first industrial-scale thermal depolymerization plant, recently completed in an adjacent lot, and be transformed into various useful products, including 600 barrels of light oil.
In an industrial park in Philadelphia sits a new machine that can change almost anything into oil.
Really.
"This is a solution to three of the biggest problems facing mankind," says Brian Appel, chairman and CEO of Changing World Technologies, the company that built this pilot plant and has just completed its first industrial-size installation in Missouri. "This process can deal with the world's waste. It can supplement our dwindling supplies of oil. And it can slow down global warming."
The thermal depolymerization process, or TDP. The process is designed to handle almost any waste product imaginable, including turkey offal, tires, plastic bottles, harbor-dredged muck, old computers, municipal garbage, cornstalks, paper-pulp effluent, infectious medical waste, oil-refinery residues, even biological weapons such as anthrax spores. According to Appel, waste goes in one end and comes out the other as three products, all valuable and environmentally benign: high-quality oil, clean-burning gas, and purified minerals that can be used as fuels, fertilizers, or specialty chemicals for manufacturing.
Unlike other solid-to-liquid-fuel processes such as cornstarch into ethanol, this one will accept almost any carbon-based feedstock. If a 175-pound man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 pounds of sterilized water. While no one plans to put people into a thermal depolymerization machine, an intimate human creation could become a prime feedstock. "There is no reason why we can't turn sewage, including human excrement, into a glorious oil," says engineer Terry Adams, a project consultant. So the city of Philadelphia is in discussion with Changing World Technologies to begin doing exactly that.
"The potential is unbelievable," says Michael Roberts, a senior chemical engineer for the Gas Technology Institute, an energy research group. "You're not only cleaning up waste; you're talking about distributed generation of oil all over the world."
"This is not an incremental change. This is a big, new step," agrees Alf Andreassen, a venture capitalist with the Paladin Capital Group and a former Bell Laboratories director.
The offal-derived oil, is chemically almost identical to a number two fuel oil used to heat homes.
Andreassen and others anticipate that a large chunk of the world's agricultural, industrial, and municipal waste may someday go into thermal depolymerization machines scattered all over the globe. If the process works as well as its creators claim, not only would most toxic waste problems become history, so would imported oil.
Just converting all the U.S. agricultural waste into oil and gas would yield the energy equivalent of 4 billion barrels of oil annually. In 2001 the United States imported 4.2 billion barrels of oil. Referring to U.S. dependence on oil from the volatile Middle East, R. James Woolsey, former CIA director and an adviser to Changing World Technologies, says, "This technology offers a beginning of a way away from this."
http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
If US business hires only the best minds for its top leadership, why should we put up with a third class mind like Bu$h leading us into the 21st century?
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-- Chief Scientist from Hanover on 4/21/03; 3:49:23 PM
No weapons of mass destruction, don't you bet on it. The CIA just hasn't delivered them yet. They will turn up when US agents have had time to dig the hole and bury them so some unsuspecting arms inspector can dig them up. Why else deny the inspectors access at this time?
-- Frank from lebanon on 4/20/03; 7:30:19 PM
So where are they, Mr Blair?
Not one illegal warhead. Not one drum of chemicals. Not one incriminating document. Not one shred of evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction in more than a month of war and occupation
So where are they? In case we forget, distracted by the thought of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, looted museums and gathering political chaos, the proclaimed purpose of this war, vainly pursued by Britain and the US through the United Nations, was to disarm Saddam Hussein and to destroy weapons of mass destruction deemed a menace to the entire world.
But, Mr Blair, where are they? A month has passed since American and British troops entered Iraq, more than a week since the fall of Baghdad. But thus far not even a sniff. Not a drum of VX or mustard gas, not a phial of botulin or anthrax, not a shred of evidence that Iraq was assembling a nuclear weapons programme.
But that wasn't what they told us. Remember Colin Powell at the Security Council two months ago (though today it seems another age on another planet): the charts, the grainy intelligence satellite pictures, the crackly tapes of the intercepted phone conversations among Iraqi officials? How plausible it all sounded, especially when propounded by the most plausible figure in the Bush ad- ministration.
And what about those other claims, wheeled out on various occasions by Messrs Bush, Blair, Cheney and Rumsfeld? The Iraqi drones that were supposed to be able to attack the US east coast, the imports of aluminium tubes allegedly intended for centrifuges to enrich uranium, the unaccounted-for lethal nerve and germ agents, in quantities specified down to the last gallon or pound, as if exact numbers alone constituted proof. All, it seems, egregious products of the imagination of the intelligence services ˆ one commodity whose existence need never be doubted.
Maybe the Saddam regime was diabolically cunning in the concealment of these weap-ons, but the shambolic manner of its passing suggests otherwise. Maybe, as those "US officials" continue to suggest from behind their comfortable screen of anonymity, the weapons have been shipped to Syria for "safekeeping". But that theory too is dismissed by independent experts.
http://argument.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/story.jsp?story=398837
By the way...where is Saddam Insane, Osama Bin Laden, and Mohammad Mullah Omer?
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-- Grad Student from Hanover on 4/20/03; 9:59:59 AM
Virtual war. Here at home there is a lack of reality. It is surreal, like a video game. The
players, manipulating their joy stick, are never killed or even injured. They sit at their
screens and exclaim about how well the game is going. But, like all video games, it is
rigged. The opponent is weak and programmed to lose. All the players have to do, after a
set back, is regroup, identify a slightly stronger, more powerful weapon and start again.
They are always, ultimately, stronger than the evil forces. Along the way a few friends
might disappear from the screen, zapped by an evil laser or from a player mistake, but
there is always a new friend or combatant to take its place.
We watchers, sit at our screens fascinated, as digitized images float to us via satellite.
Mouths and motions move like simulated people, tanks and Humvee‚s jerkily rumble
across the desert in early video graphics. The talk is of advances and consolidations,
bravery and evil deceit, heroes and villains. Each new level reached is celebrated, any
delay is described as an adjustment in strategy until, finally, the virtual end is in sight.
However, the end, in reality, was never in doubt. Rigged games never are.
The harsher realities are the „acceptable causalities‰ (re: Valley News editorial April 4).
The manipulators in this game do not deal in projected numbers of dead and injured.
Digitally, the warriors are unlimited and our at-risk sons and daughters, spouses and
friends remain unnamed until they are, un-acceptably, causalities. That‚s the beauty and
the glory of „The Bush Wars,‰ playing today in your local living rooms, and soon available
on DVD at Walmart and Toys R Us.
-- frank from Lebanon on 4/19/03; 7:03:28 PM
Damn liberals and their incessant "big picture" crapola. Do they not see the heartwarming photos? That amazing and poignant (staged) bogus PR shot of the giant Saddam statue being (staged) pulled down by a tiny crowd of (staged) cheering Iraqis, with -- what an amazing coincidence! -- the actual U.S. flag that flew at the Pentagon on 9/11 being (staged) draped around it? How can those pacifist freaks not be moved by that? Clearly, God loves America more than anyone.
And another thing the damn liberals were all wrong about? Death! All praise Rummy and BushCo for keeping civilian causalities to a minimum during the war!
Yessir, we slaughtered but a fraction of what we imagined we would in those worst-case scenarios, killed only a few thousand Iraqi civilians and merely tens of thousands of young, stupefied Iraqi soldiers, as oppose to the hundreds of thousands we were all prepared to kill if Baghdad had resisted like we thought it would. We had the murderous cluster bombs all ready and everything. Damn.
And only what, about 125 dead American GIs so far? That was so totally worth it! The world is safer! Freedom is restored! Just look at all that staggering and irrefutable evidence we have now uncovered that proves what a dire threat Saddam was to our nubile happy American virgins as well as the security of the entire world! Ha! See?
See all those nasty WMDs? Those sprawling nuclear facilities? The huge biotoxin factories? The Saddam Club for al Qaeda members? See? No? Oh. Well, we'll find them! Just you wait. Saddam probably saw us coming and moved them all into Syria. Yeah! That's what happened! Syria! Those bastards!
Peacenik dinks. Who's laughing now? The country loves its little Bush! He can do no wrong! His approval ratings are sky high! Just like his daddy's were right after Desert Storm. Remember?
Right before they nosedived to the lowest of any president in history?
-- K.K.K. from Hanover on 4/19/03; 3:49:53 PM
Can you imagine the American response if the Truman administration brought in Hitler's Gestapo to help police Berlin after the war? Well, that's what's happening in Iraq. The Bush administration hired members of Saddam's police force to help stop the looting in Baghdad. What kind of a message does that send to the "hearts and minds" in the Middle East? And what kind of message is sent by having, according to NBC, the Bush-appointed Viceroy of Iraq, former U.S. Lt. Gen. Jay Garner, planning to live in Saddam's Baghdad Palace?
British Aid Plane Prevented from Entering Iraq
From Reuters: "U.S. forces have refused a Save the Children plane permission to land in northern Iraq to deliver aid, breaching the Geneva Convention and 'costing children their lives,' the British aid agency said on Thursday. Save the Children said in a statement it had been trying for more than a week to land a plane in Arbil carrying enough medical supplies to treat 40,000 people and emergency feeding kits for malnourished children. A U.S. official told the charity no aid flights would be allowed until the area was safe but the U.N. has already declared Arbil a 'safe and secure' area, the charity said. 'The doctors we are trying to help have been struggling against the odds for weeks to continue saving lives, but now the help we have promised them is being endlessly delayed,' Emergency Program Manager Rob MacGillivray said."
-- Rev. Ike from Island Pond on 4/18/03; 12:55:39 PM
Pro-War Organizer Rallied for the Troops and Lied about his Korean War Service
"Don Neddo, the force behind the region's biggest pro-U.S. troops rallies, will no longer organize the demonstrations after admitting Thursday that he fabricated his combat service. Neddo, 70, never parachuted into Korean enemy lines with the Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade during the Korean War and never suffered frostbite overseas, as he claimed in a Times Union story on March 29. Neddo is not even a veteran. 'I'll resign because I don't want to hurt this thing,' Neddo said, referring to the rallies, one of which drew 5,000 to 7,000 people on March 29 in Clifton Park. Confronted with the fact that the 173rd Airborne never served in Korea, Neddo broke down and said he actually was a private with an anti-aircraft New York State Guard unit in the New Scotland Avenue Armory in Albany during the 1950s. The unit never left the country." A chickenhawk like Dubya - BushDaddy pulled strings to get him into a champagne unit of the National Guard, which he then deserted (see Awolbush.com).
-- Viet Nam Vet from South Reading on 4/17/03; 6:45:05 PM
Library Books, Letters and Priceless Documents are Set Ablaze in Final Chapter of the Sacking of Baghdad
So yesterday was the burning of books. First came the looters, then the arsonists. It was the final chapter in the sacking of Baghdad. The National Library and Archives - a priceless treasure of Ottoman historical documents, including the old royal archives of Iraq - were turned to ashes in 3,000 degrees of heat. Then the library of Korans at the Ministry of Religious Endowment was set ablaze.
I saw the looters. One of them cursed me when I tried to reclaim a book of Islamic law from a boy of no more than 10. Amid the ashes of Iraqi history, I found a file blowing in the wind outside: pages of handwritten letters between the court of Sharif Hussein of Mecca, who started the Arab revolt against the Turks for Lawrence of Arabia, and the Ottoman rulers of Baghdad.
And the Americans did nothing.
All over the filthy yard they blew, letters of recommendation to the courts of Arabia, demands for ammunition for troops, reports on the theft of camels and attacks on pilgrims, all in delicate hand-written Arabic script. I was holding in my hands the last Baghdad vestiges of Iraq's written history. But for Iraq, this is Year Zero; with the destruction of the antiquities in the Museum of Archaeology on Saturday and the burning of the National Archives and then the Koranic library, the cultural identity of Iraq is being erased. Why? Who set these fires? For what insane purpose is this heritage being destroyed?
When I caught sight of the Koranic library burning - flames 100 feet high were bursting from the windows - I raced to the offices of the occupying power, the US Marines' Civil Affairs Bureau. An officer shouted to a colleague that "this guy says some biblical [sic] library is on fire". I gave the map location, the precise name - in Arabic and English. I said the smoke could be seen from three miles away and it would take only five minutes to drive there. Half an hour later, there wasn't an American at the scene - and the flames were shooting 200 feet into the air.
For almost a thousand years, Baghdad was the cultural capital of the Arab world, the most literate population in the Middle East. Genghis Khan's grandson burnt the city in the 13th century and, so it was said, the Tigris river ran black with the ink of books. Yesterday, the black ashes of thousands of ancient documents filled the skies of Iraq. Why?
http://commondreams.org/views03/0415-07.htm
Books burned by the hob nail booted troops of King George the Hun?
-- Anonymous from Hanover on 4/15/03; 6:36:14 PM
Seig Heil, ya all...
10 Iraqi Civilians Killed In Mosul By U.S. Troops
Iraqi 'Freedom' Day 7: At Least 10 Anti-Occupation Protesters Massacred in Mosul
Islam-Online.net reports, "At least 10 Iraqi people were shot dead and scores wounded Tuesday, April 15, in the northern Iraqi town of Mosul, a hospital doctor said, with witnesses claiming U.S. troops opened fire after a crowd turned against an American-installed local governor... 'We were at the market place near the government building, where Mashaan al-Juburi was making a speech,' said Marwan Mohammed, 50... The American [soldiers] were going through the crowd with their flag. They placed themselves between the civilians and the building. The people moved toward the government building, the children threw stones, the Americans started firing. Then they prevented the people from recovering the bodies,' he told AFP... 'Juburi said the people must cooperate with the US. The crowd called him a liar, and tempers rose as he continued to talk. They threw objects at him, overturned his car which exploded,' said Dr. Said Altah. 'The wounded said Juburi asked the Americans to fire.'"
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2003-04/15/article08.shtml
-- Anonymous from Hanover on 4/15/03; 3:43:29 PM
What if the Neocons get their next wish? Rummy and Wolfowitz of Arabia and Sheik Colin raise the decibels on the Syria rhetoric, bring US troops up close to the Syrian border "to prevent escape of Iraqi VIPs and entrance of Syrian and other Arab Mujahadin. And then, George W. decides that God has told him, has honored him with the vision to invade Syria. Religious fanatic converts make claims like that.
This will take at least a few months. George's friends in the military industrial complex have to build a new batch of cruise missiles. Military products are the Bush family business, don't forget, starting with the Carlyle Group. Bush will give them enough time to make another ten or twenty billion dollars, and then, as, remarkably, the Iraqis chaos seems to be settling down, as the IMF and WTO and WB parasitically settles in, getting comfortable, forcing the Iraq to allow UK and US oil corporations to "help" privatize Iraqi oil for pennies on the dollar, George will turn his attention to Syria, discover unacceptable aid to Iraq, declare Syria a terrorist nation (it is one) and go full blast into Syria and it's controlled colony, Lebanon.
Here's where it gets interesting.
So... what if they don't wait? Unlike Iraq, which had been militarily castrated for 12 years, Syria, Saudi Arabia Iran and Libya have been on spending sprees buying weapons of mass destruction-- fighter jets, smart bombs, GPS technology. They have money, troops, and allies. They own good chunks of the US and could send the stock market into a further spiral that might make new records. What if they not only pull all their investments out of the US, and stop supplying oil to the US, but they also decide that, since they're in line as targets anyway, they decide to fight back. What if they attack our fleets, bomb the Iraqi and Kuwaiti airbases and do horrendous damage to our troops? They will surely do Haliburton a favor and ignite hundreds of oil wells, and destroy pipelines. Of course, they could not defeat our combined forces. But they could do incredible damage to our Middle East troops and military position, overtaxed as it is.
Of course, any such action will draw our remaining allies Bulgaria, Poland and Australia into the fray. Great Britain has said it does not want a part of any further war plans. NATO's participation will be questionable, since we've taken such extreme measures to distance and alienate them. We'll probably be unable to keep Israel out of it, since surely, Syria will lob more than Katyusha rockets at Israel's major cities.
This is a terrifying scenario.
Once we reach the point described, with Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and possibly Libya involved in a regional conflagration, the religious far right-- the 50 million readers of the Left Behind book series that explores life on the planet after "the Rapture" when the messiah comes back, at the "end times" as predicted in the New Testament-- may actually be happy about what's going on. These religious supporters see the Iraq war as a step closer to meeting their messiah and leaving this earth.
With India and Pakistan juggling Nukes, just waiting for an excuse to drop them, with N. Korea and Israel primed and ready to go with their own nukes, it's time for the congress to pass a bill, really fast that makes it clear that the war it authorized with Iraq was the limit of the authorization, that any attack on any other country is strictly forbidden. That's something for the democratic party and the candidates to endorse and to get behind in a big hurry.
-- Rev Ike from Island Pond on 4/13/03; 6:05:58 PM
Remember when the German Nazi troops looted Paris and the Russian Communist troops looted Berlin? Now its Amerikas turn to be the bad guys...
Looters Ransack Baghdad's Antiquities Museum
BAGHDAD - Looters have sacked Baghdad's antiquities museum, plundering treasures dating back thousands of years to the dawn of civilization in Mesopotamia, museum staff said on Saturday. They blamed U.S. troops for not protecting the treasures.
An Iraqi civilian walks through the vault of the National Museum in Baghdad, Iraq Saturday April 12, 2003. Looters opened the museum vault, went on a rampage breaking ancient artifacts stored there by museum authorities before the war started. (AP Photo/Jerome Delay)
Surveying the littered glass wreckage of display cases and pottery shards at the Iraqi National Museum on Saturday, deputy director Nabhal Amin wept and told Reuters: "They have looted or destroyed 170,000 items of antiquity dating back thousands of years...They were worth billions of dollars."
She blamed U.S. troops, who have controlled Baghdad since the collapse of President Saddam Hussein's rule on Wednesday, for failing to heed appeals from museum staff to protect it from looters who moved in to the building on Friday.
"The Americans were supposed to protect the museum. If they had just one tank and two soldiers nothing like this would have happened," she said. "I hold the American troops responsible for what happened to this museum."
http://commondreams.org/headlines03/0412-01.htm
:(
-- Museum Guard from Hanover on 4/12/03; 3:27:07 PM
Sometimes the Devil you know (Saddam) is better than the Devil you don't know:
Turkey threatens to send troops into Iraq
Saturday April 12, 2003,The Guardian
Turkey held out the option of deploying more troops to northern Iraq yesterday, if Kurdish fighters failed to relinquish control of two key cities in the region.
Ankara announced that troops along the border with Iraq were poised to go in after being alarmed by jubilant Kurdish peshmerga pouring into the oil-rich cities of Kirkuk and Mosul.
Turkey, with Nato's second largest army, has an estimated 70,000 soldiers, equipped with tanks and other heavy armour, along the border with Iraq. About 4,000 Turkish troops are already in northern Iraq, ostensibly to protect the Turkomans, the area's ethnic Turkish population.
Turkish intervention is not viewed lightly by the US. Kurds say they loathe the Turks more than Saddam and have and vowed to resist an incursion. Washington fears a further Turkish intervention would ignite a "war within a war".
The oilfields of Kirkuk and Mosul provide about 40®f Iraq's oil output.
Turkey sees Kurdish control of either city as the first step on the way to Iraqi Kurds claiming independence. It fears that with the oil resources secured, Kurds would possess the economic power to back their dream of gaining their own state, as well as stirring secessionist sentiments among Turkey's 12 million Kurds.
Mr Gul also expressed concern for Kirkuk's Turkomans yesterday. He said reports of the Turkoman community's title deed and registry offices being looted raised suspicions that the Kurds were determined to erase them from the city.
Looks to me like the US is knee deep in a swamp filled with Muslem Alligators...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,935273,00.html
-- Dartmouth Student from Hanover on 4/11/03; 7:51:41 PM
Cheer up folks, things will get worse, much worse:
In the north of Iraq, the Kurds want to control the mainly Kurdish cities of Mosul and Kirkuk because the surrounding oil fields would place an independent Kurdish state on a sound economic footing. Kurdish fighters have already seized Kirkuk ˜ but Turkey, anxious about the influence of an independent Kurdistan on their own huge and restive Kurdish minority, have said that if the Kurds take Mosul and Kirkuk, they invade.
The United States is trying to limit the damage, promising that the Kurdish fighters will be replaced by "coalition" troops in Kirkuk and inviting Turkish army observers to the city. But it won't find it easy to get the Kurds out.
This is their best chance for independence in the past 80 years, and they would be mad not to try for it. They have been betrayed by the U.S. so many times that they feel they owe it nothing, and they say they would resist a Turkish invasion whether the U.S. helps them or not.
The situation down south is even more precarious, for the long-oppressed Shia Arabs of the south are about two-thirds of the entire Iraqi population.
If Iraq really became a democracy, the Shiites would dominate the government, and naturally turn to their fellow Shiites in Iran for advice and support.
Since Iran is allegedly part of the "axis of evil," the retired U.S. generals who will shortly be ruling Iraq are unlikely to turn the country over to people with that sort of friends. If U.S. troops stay in Iraq and the Shiites feel cheated out of their fair share of power yet again, however, it won't be long before they start resisting U.S. rule.
It gets worse. Any Shia resistance movement in Iraq is bound to get support from Iran, and there will soon be U.S. troops all along the Iran-Iraq border, only a few hours' drive from Iran's main oil fields.
Even if the Bush administration isn't planning another war before the next election, U.S. attempts to stop infiltration across the border from Iran could easily lead to a U.S.-Iran war much sooner than that ˜ and Iran has a relatively united population three times bigger than Iraq's.
Eventually, the American public is likely to rebel against the continual flow of casualties and the higher taxes that come with this new role of global vigilante, but in the meantime it is going to be a wild ride.
http://commondreams.org/views03/0411-05.htm
.
-- Anonymous from Hanover on 4/11/03; 6:09:59 PM
Iraq is a quagmire out of which the US cannot get!
Kurdish victory provokes fears of Turkish invasion
Kurdish forces seized Kirkuk, the oil capital of northern Iraq, bringing joyful street celebrations yesterday. Kirkuk is the first northern Iraqi city to fall, but its capture by the Kurds could prompt an invasion by the Turkish army.
Turkey rushed military advisers to the city last night to ensure the Kurds pull back and the White House tried to reassure Ankara that American forces would be in firm control.
Kurdish leaders claimed that their fighters advanced on the city to stop an orgy of looting that began after the Iraqi army withdrew several hours earlier.
But the advance appeared to break an agreement with Turkey that Kurdish troops would not capture Kirkuk, which Kurds regard as their natural capital and from where they were expelled by Saddam Hussein.
Kurdish commanders said they would withdraw their forces and hand over the city to the Allies. But they have already appointed their own governor, and it appears clear they intend to remain in administrative control of the city.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396047
Britain cuts back forces in the Gulf
By Jon Smith, Political Editor, PA News
11 April 2003
Britain has started to to scale back its forces in the Gulf, armed forces minister Adam Ingram said today.
Some have already returned and others will return shortly, he told a press briefing at the Ministry of Defence.
"It would not make sense to keep personnel in the region any longer than is necessary. Some have already returned and some will return shortly."
Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon confirmed details of the force reduction in a written statement to MPs.
He said ships, planes, helicopters and field hospital units would shortly be withdrawn from the Gulf region including HMS Ark Royal and some of her accompanying ships.
Mr Hoon said HMS Marlborough, HMS Liverpool and Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Grey
Rover would now deploy to the Far East to take part in exercises.
HMS Ark Royal and elements of her group would return to the UK, said the Secretary of State.
He added that "a number" of fixed wing jets and helicopters would be withdrawn, starting with the return of Tornado F3 aircraft over the next few days.
"In the near term, the medical capacity in the region means that we can now withdraw 33 Field Hospital and RFA Argus."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396233
O What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive...
-- Mella from Hanover on 4/11/03; 12:35:46 PM
Regardless of how you feel on the war, it is too late now to protest.
Lets say the powers that be decide to listen to you an pull out. Here are the consenquences:
1. We leave an entire nation in one of the most volitile areas of the world defenseless. For many different reasons (oil, water rights, political and religious differences, etc.) Syria, Turkey and Iran would all love to take over Iraq, would not take it over in the humane way we did and will not leave once the conflict is over, as we will. You can argue that we will not leave. Remember, we live in a Democratic society. We will leave because if we do not leave, the U.S. people will elect a President and Congress that will.
2. We leave a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions. We will leave a country without a Government, with many different factions and with limited food and water supplies. It is our responsibilty to get these back and running properly before we leave.
3. We will continue to live in a state of fear of nuclear, biological, radiological and other threats of terrorism that can only be imagined.
Your pressure will only cause the coalition governments to pull out sooner than needed and cause our troops who need our support to feel unappreciated.
Don't let your disdain for the President cloud your views. If you are real humanitarians you would support our Troops, our President and the Coalition. If you have a real problem, deal with it in the next election. Now is too late.
Don't waste your time, spend it doing some good. Go volunteer somewhere and help our local needy.
-- Tim from Lebanon on 4/11/03; 2:23:27 AM
Fred: I think you are right. This is only Act 1, Scene 1 of a bad Tragedy about to unfold...
Syrian volunteers fought US troops in southern Iraq
A witness says 40 to 50 Syrians entered Samawah April 3, taking positions in a residential area.
The Christian Science Monitor
TALIL AIR BASE HOSPITAL ˆ Volunteer fighters from Syria were among the forces battling US troops in recent days in southern Iraq, say civilian witnesses.
The accounts from the southern city of Samawah contribute to evidence that the US faces a stubborn fight from non-Iraqi Arab volunteers. Unlike Iraqi soldiers, their loyalties lie with militant anti-Western Islam, not the toppled regime of Saddam Hussein.
Hundreds of Arab volunteers have reportedly entered Iraq from Syria and Jordan in recent weeks, and US troops in Baghdad were fighting non-Iraqi Arab fighters in several districts Thursday.
On the night of April 3, US troops arrived in Samawah to clear Iraqi forces from this city of 124,000 people.
According to separate accounts by local Iraqis Mohammad Sami Noon and Montaha Ayed, Iraqi soldiers and Syrian volunteers decided to make a stand within their neighborhood.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0411/p07s02-woiq.html
-- Wagner from Hanover on 4/10/03; 9:06:38 PM
Louise: I get this horrible feeling that Bu$h, empowered and emboldened by the FOX NEWS shot of Saddams statue being pulled down, and Iraq citizens chearing with planted photos of Bu$h the troops obviously brought with them for this occasion, will invade Syria and Iran next. He thinks God has chosen him for all this.
The northern oil fields are just a few miles from Turkey and Iran. Why shouldnt Iran, Turkey, Syria, and perhaps Russia try to get them away from the US and the UK? It would be easy for them to do and hard for us to stop them. The US might control the southern oilfields but they will never control the northern oilfields.
Have you noticed that absolutely no one is flying their US flags on their cars or houses any more? Why is this? Where has all the patriotism gone?
MSNBC says we lost 101 killed and 399 wounded so far, but Rummmy says be prepared for more casualties. Obviously, he knows the true casualty count and is trying to soften the blow.
The US only controls 20®f Baghdad and does not control the north at all. The Iraq guy the US wants to install as Presidente of Iraq is a convicted felon who stole millions from middle east banks. (Sounds like Neil Bu$h and the Bu$h clan, doesn't it?)
So far the US hasn't pumped out a drop of stolen Iraq oil and I bet it will be a long, long time before they do so.
-- Fred from West Norwich on 4/10/03; 3:45:30 PM
Judy,
I am happy for the few Iraqi's shown on CNN who are happy to be liberated.
However I am still very much aware of all of the
innocents that were maimed,lost all of their family members, homes etc..
Do they feel liberated? Only time will tell.
I love how Doomsday Rumsfeld fumbled in his Q&A
today about how to tell the world why we haven't found all of the weapons of mass destruction that the Bu$h regime claimed was the main reason for this war.
The story keeps changing, the reason remains the same.....
O-I-L
This isn't going to make our country safer, it's just making the terrorist society more and more angry, and hey girl, what will you do when the suicide bombings start happening in your pretty little town?
-- Louise from Bradford on 4/9/03; 7:53:59 PM
Though the White House may declare victory in Iraq, the most dangerous days are ahead.
This battle is for the hearts and minds of Iraqis, Americans and the rest of the world, and the traps we'll face are much greater than those posed by an ill-armed, poorly led regime. As an occupying army in a nation with which it has no cultural affinity, the United States has to accomplish miracles: build from scratch a functioning democracy in a country full of sharply divided nationalist, religious and tribal passions, and with no history of political freedom -- and do it by force without antagonizing the populace.
The price of failure will be more terrorism, more death of innocents, more damage to the U.S. economy, renewal of a global arms race and the potential for a chaotic regional war. We have won nothing yet.
Jane Fonda fears 'entire world' will unite against U.S. after Iraq war
VANCOUVER -- Jane Fonda told a Canadian audience that she fears the U.S. campaign in Iraq will turn people all over the world against America.
``What it's going to mean for (America's) stability as a nation, for terrorism, for the economy - I can't imagine,'' Fonda said Tuesday. ``I think the entire world is going to be united against us.''
That frightens her, she said, but she isn't sure what Americans can do about it.
``I don't know if a country where the people are so ignorant of reality and of history, if you can call that a free world,'' she said.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/389/3814120.html
Iraq Body Count
www.iraqbodycount.org
The worldwide update of reported civilian deaths in the war on Iraq
-- Fond of Jane from Hanover on 4/9/03; 6:00:39 PM
Poor Louise - can't even enjoy the jubilation in a city and country where today marks the first taste of freedom any of these people have aver had.Too hard to admit this was a great effort to bring these people what you have always had, Freedom from tyranny.
-- Judy from West Lebanon on 4/9/03; 4:13:23 PM
How many folks here wonder why we really shelled
the Palestine Hotel that housed non-"embedded"
journalists?
I believe the US wants them out of the way so we
won't get the true details of what is actually
happening in Iraq,now that they have entered
Bahgdad.
Will we ever get the truth?
Who is going to take care of the young boy that had his arms blown off during the same shelling that killed his entire family?
And how many more stories like this exist.
It makes me sick and ashamed.
-- Louise from Bradford on 4/8/03; 8:08:24 PM
Etheridge: Budget cuts veterans
Rocky Mount Telegram
U.S. Rep. Bob Etheridge on Monday denounced those members of the House who voted last week to pass the federal budget.
Etheridge, D-2nd District, criticized passage of the budget because it eliminates $28 billion in funding for veterans' benefits over the next 10 years.
"It's absolutely outrageous that the majority in the U.S. House of Representatives pushed through a budget that severely cuts funding for our veterans," Etheridge said in a written statement.
Reps. Frank Ballance, D-1st District, and Walter Jones, R-3rd District, voted against the proposal, but it passed by three votes.
The House budget would cut mandatory veterans' benefits such as disability and pension payments and the GI bill, Etheridge said.
The cuts include $14.2 billion in the Veterans Administration's discretionary budget, Etheridge said, leaving the decision of where to make those cuts in the hands of the Veterans Administration.
The cuts could mean burial benefits for veterans are discontinued or that the cost-of-living adjustment for disability benefits are delayed, Etheridge said, but 96 percent of discretionary spending is applied to health care, meaning that some cuts likely would come from that area.
If passed in the final budget draft, some veterans would be required to pay a new $250 annual enrollment fee to join the Veterans Administration health-care system. An estimated 22,000 North Carolina veterans will pay the new enrollment fee. The Veterans Administration believes that 1.25 million veterans nationwide, already under the Veterans Administration health-care plan, may no longer be able to participate because of the new fee, Etheridge said.
"Our troops fighting overseas today should know that when they come home the country that they served will not turn its back on them," Etheridge said. "That budget breaks the solemn promise made to the very men and women who fight for our freedom."
It also is estimated that those who can remain under the VA health-care system may be forced to pay increased co-payments for physician benefits and prescription drug cost, amounting to an estimated increase in out-of-pocket expenses of $347 each year, he said.
http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/newsfd/auto/feed/news/2003/04/01/1049175249.00353.2629.5998.html
-- Viet Nam Vet from South Reading on 4/8/03; 6:58:42 PM
US Soldier Brags after Shooting Dead a 10-year-old: "We showed them We Don't Care"
"As US troops take the Iraq war out of the desert and into the main cities, they are increasingly seeing children in their line of fire," reports smh.au.online. "Many are innocent civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time and military officers concede that some may have been killed in artillery or mortar fire, or shot down by soldiers whose judgment is impaired in the "fog of war".
But others are apparently [i.e. ALLEGEDLY] being used as fighters or more often as scouts and weapons collectors. US officers and soldiers say that turns them into legitimate targets." Says 21-yr-old private Nick Boggs: "I think they thought we wouldn't shoot kids. But we showed them we don't care." The boy he killed was with another child of around the same age...other soldiers think he escaped and that he dragged his friend's dead body away. " What, of what, has America come to?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/08/1049567660897.html
Building a Psychopathic Society in the Image of G. W. Bush
These young American soldiers are in the process of becoming dehumanized - brutalized and reprogrammed into believing that killing a child is OK, that a devastated country filled with dead, maimed, and grieving people is "liberation," that your fellow countrymen will support you NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, that being cold-blooded and being strong are synonymous - that might, no matter how callous, how wantonly destructive - is right. This is America in the image of G. W. Bush, who personally ordered the executions of more Americans than any other governor in modern history, who has been responsible, directly, for the deaths of more overseas civilians than any president since Richard Nixon, and who has yet to show the slightest glimmer of human compassion for any of the suffering he inflicts. It is a psychopathic society that we are building, one that will haunt us for years to come and, unchecked, destroy us. If America is buying the society G.W. Bush is selling because they believe it will make them safe, then we are a nation of abject, pathetic cowards. And, if an anti-Christ exists - then he is sitting in the White House, laughing all the way to hell - with America in tow.
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/3706
:(
-- Ashamed of the Stars and Stripes from Hanover Center on 4/8/03; 4:50:29 PM
Hey, Hey, Georgie, Hey, How Many Kids Did You KILL Today?
Amid Allied Jubilation, a Child Lies in Agony, Clothes Soaked in Blood
They lay in lines, the car salesman who'd just lost his eye but whose feet were still dribbling blood, the motorcyclist who was shot by American troops near the Rashid Hotel, the 50-year-old female civil servant, her long dark hair spread over the towel she was lying on, her face, breasts, thighs, arms and feet pock-marked with shrapnel from an American cluster bomb. For the civilians of Baghdad, this is the real, immoral face of war, the direct result of America's clever little "probing missions" into Baghdad.
A child with head and chest injuries is comforted at a hospital in Baghdad, Iraq Monday April,7. 2003. The child was injured in coalition airstrike on the al-Mansour district in Baghdad. (AP Photo/ALI Haider).
It looks very neat on television, the American marines on the banks of the Tigris, the oh-so-funny visit to the presidential palace, the videotape of Saddam Hussein's golden loo. But the innocent are bleeding and screaming with pain to bring us our exciting television pictures and to provide Messrs Bush and Blair with their boastful talk of victory. I watched two-and-a-half-year-old Ali Najour lying in agony on the bed, his clothes soaked with blood, a tube through his nose, until a relative walked up to me.
Has any of you the guts to look at these photographs of wounded and burned children that the brave US Marines butchered?
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0408-01.htm
-- a Mother from Hanover on 4/8/03; 10:05:25 AM
Busheviks Declare Neil Bush's Adultery PATRIOTIC
"Neil Bush and his wife, Sharon, are headed to divorce court, and a source says their lawyers are frantically working for a last-minute settlement. The president's brother is splitting from his wife of 23 years - there have been published reports that he has a replacement waiting in the wings - and a trial date has been set for mid-April in a Houston court, says a source familiar with the case. 'This thing could get really ugly,' says the insider.'We're hoping that it will all get settled out of court. The last thing we want now is for the Bush family to be airing its dirty laundry.' The couple are the parents of model Lauren Bush. 'Of course,' adds the insider, 'in the current political climate, maybe no one will touch the story because they don't want to be accused of being unpatriotic.'" When Clinton was President, adultery was grounds for impeachment - under Bush, adultery is PATRIOTIC! Impeach Bush Now!
-- Anonymous from Hanover on 4/7/03; 10:17:16 PM
Judy,
been watching the news?
If you had, you would have to wonder how many
innocent Iraqi's have to be bombed and murdered
by the "coalition".
Bahsra is on fire, and people are homeless.
So we see big scenes of breaking into the palaces,
big deal!
The president of the US as well as all the leading politicians are living far better than
huge amounts of Americans.
Why don't we wage a war against homelessness,
joblessness and the economy?
-- Louise from Bradford on 4/7/03; 8:42:19 PM
The Jessica Lynch story has all the elements of a Hollywood classic. Right from the day she disappeared, Lynch commanded all the media attention, far more than her less fortunate sisters-in-arms, Shoshana Johnson, whose terrified eyes in that PoW video will haunt me forever, or Lori Ann Piestewa, a Hopi Indian we will never see alive.
It is recognizable that America does have a hierarchy of life, with pretty blondes at the top, black Americans and Native Americans further down and the rest of the world trailing hopelessly, which helps explain the unseemly rush to war.
It is difficult not to wonder how the Lynch story is playing in the Arab street, especially when things were going boom in Baghdad, causing who knows how many casualties on both sides.
But then, Washington's "We will liberate you even if it kills you - or us" attitude is the message of the moment. The invading forces are so good and kind that, after they blow you up, CNN reporters (Dr. Sanjay Gupta) rush in to perform brain surgery on you.
This feed-and-kill policy - throwing bombs in Baghdad and throwing food at the people - is not winning hearts and minds.
-- Black Student from Hanover on 4/7/03; 4:21:53 PM
There is no point in winning the war to lose the peace. Military power cannot be used without political constraint, which limits its indiscriminate application. The objective of war is not merely to kill, but to impose political control by force. Therein lies the weakest part of the US war plan to date. The plan lacks a focus of what political control it aims to establish. The US has not informed the world of its end game regarding Iraq, beyond the removal of Saddam Hussein. The idea of a US occupational governor was and is a laughable non-starter.
Guerilla resistance will not end even after the Iraqi government is toppled and its army destroyed. Drawing upon British experiences in Malaysia and Rhodesia, the force ratio of army forces to guerilla forces needed for merely containing guerilla resistance, let alone defeating a guerilla force, is about 20 to 1. US estimates of the size of Iraq's guerilla force stands at 100,000 for the time being. This means the US would need a force of 2 million to contain the situation even if it already controls the country.
At the current rate of war expenditure at $2.5 billion a day, the war budget of $75 billion will be exhausted after 30 days, or until April 20, ten days before the projected arrival of all reinforcements to the front. Nobody has asked how a doubling of forces will win a guerilla war in Iraq. The US is having difficulty supplying 120,000 troops now, how will doubling the supply load over a 300 miles supply line help against an enemy that refuses to engage face to face? Domestic political opposition in the United Kingdom has started to demand that Prime Minister Tony Blair should pull British troops out now, based on the grounds that the US war plan has changed.
-- Bean Counter from Hanover on 4/6/03; 11:59:22 AM
Louise - You again evade the issues. Please address the slaughtering of millions in Iraq.The way you guys evade questions and spin is incredible. The oil issue has been put to rest but your hatred of Bush won't let you drop it. Such hatred has made you unable to see what is happebing. We are in the process of freeing these poor Iraqis from a butcher who will use women and children as shields. Is that okay with you?
It is not supporting the troops to be constantly attacking their commander - I watched an interview with a couple who has THREE sons over there. One son wrote home,"Does anyone at home support us?" Nice going, Louise and friends.
-- Judy from West Lebanon on 4/6/03; 6:36:47 AM
It must be very comforting for Mr/Mrs Evnin and Mr/Mrs Halvorsen to know that Commander in Chief Bu$h is a compassionate man and knows how to hug. I wonder if they will be invited to DC to get a big fat hug from the President?
It also must be extremely satisfying to know that their sons had the honour to serve the Fuhrer and the Fatherland!
I think nations go insane just like people do.
:)
-- Anonymous from Puckerbrush Hollow on 4/5/03; 8:54:18 PM
Judy,
I'll say it again.
I respect the troops, I don't respect the so-called commander in chief and his evil council.
Have we seen any weapons of mass distraction yet?
No!
Will we? Doubtful! This war is about oil and
power in the middle east.
What about all of the Palestinians who are constantly beaten down and murdered by the Isreali's? How many countries are we going to lay claim to because we believe we are the only country in the right?
Do your homework girl.
-- Louise from Bradford on 4/5/03; 7:05:01 PM
Judy:
Two body bags from Iraq are coming home to Vermont. The least you can do is to attend the funerals. (But I know from prior experience with the viet nam war, that you chicken hawks won't even bother to do that.)(You chear them on the way out but turn your backs on them when they come home in a box.)
South Burlington Marine killed in Iraq
Mark Evnin, 21, a Marine corporal from South Burlington, was killed Thursday in combat in Iraq.
Bennington pilot mourned
Army pilot Erik Halvorsen of Bennington was killed in Iraq on Wednesday when the helicopter he was flying crashed. He was a career officer who loved flying, his mother said.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/bfpnews/news/newsindex.shtml
-- Retired High School Teacher from Winooski on 4/5/03; 6:40:58 PM
Louise, I rest my case. This protest has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of war. It is about a group of sore losers who can't move on. If Republicans were acting this way, you'd be screaming about it. I feel pretty sure you hope for failure in Iraq, simply for political gains.How sad that this is how you treat our troops!
-- Judy from West Lebanon on 4/5/03; 5:18:50 PM
The Future of a Hero: The Benefits Stolen from Jessica Lynch
Vets for Justice writes, "Jessica Lynch was near death and severely injured, when rescued, suffering from an injured back, a broken arm, two broken legs, a head laceration, and fractures in both her right ankle, and foot. It is beyond doubt that Jessica will need medical care for a very long time. But what kind of medical care will this hero get from the country she gave so very much for? At the same time Jessica, and thousands, upon thousands, of America's finest were being sent in harms way, Congress was cutting the budget of the VA's Medical Programs for Veterans by 844 million for the next year. To pay for Bush's massive tax cuts for the super rich. Yes as America's Finest were carrying rifles into combat, our very own government was betraying them, and stabbing them in the back with ink pens, stealing their future Veterans Benefits. To provide Tax Cuts for Corporate America and the super rich."
The VA Medical System is already strained, and in most cases, Veterans have to wait up to a year to see a doctor. With an 844 million dollar cut in funding for Veteran Medical Care our returning heroes, such as Jessica, would have to wait a year and a half, or more, for medical care. All because of President Bush's massive tax cuts for the wealthy
http://www.vetsforjustice.com/
-- Disabled Vet from White River Junction on 4/5/03; 3:22:47 PM
Psst!
Hey Judy,
what election?
"W" was bought and court appointed.
Guess who is going to rebuild Iraq?
Haliburton.....guess who used to be it's CEO?
C-H-E-N-E-Y.
This doesn't reek of a setup?
Where are all the weapons of "mass distraction"?
-- Louise from Bradford on 4/5/03; 1:41:07 PM
Here is a Canadian Report about the HILLA MASSACRE:
Red Cross Horrified by Number of Dead Civilians
Canadian Press
OTTAWA ˜ Red Cross doctors who visited southern Iraq this week saw "incredible" levels of civilian casualties including a truckload of dismembered women and children, a spokesman said Thursday from Baghdad.
Roland Huguenin, one of six International Red Cross workers in the Iraqi capital, said doctors were horrified by the casualties they found in the hospital in Hilla, about 160 kilometres south of Baghdad.
"There has been an incredible number of casualties with very, very serious wounds in the region of Hilla," Huguenin said in a interview by satellite telephone.
"We saw that a truck was delivering dozens of totally dismembered dead bodies of women and children. It was an awful sight. It was really very difficult to believe this was happening."
Huguenin said the dead and injured in Hilla came from the village of Nasiriyah, where there has been heavy fighting between American troops and Iraqi soldiers, and appeared to be the result of "bombs, projectiles."
"At this stage we cannot comment on the nature of what happened exactly at that place . . . but it was definitely a different pattern from what we had seen in Basra or Baghdad.
"There will be investigations I am sure."
Baghdad and Basra are coping relatively well with the flow of wounded, said Huguenin, estimating that Baghdad hospitals have been getting about 100 wounded a day.
Most of the wounded in the two large cities have suffered superficial shrapnel wounds, with only about 15 per cent requiring internal surgery, he said.
But the pattern in Hilla was completely different.
"In the case of Hilla, everybody had very serious wounds and many, many of them small kids and women. We had small toddlers of two or three years of age who had lost their legs, their arms. We have called this a horror."
At least 400 people were taken to the Hilla hospital over a period of two days, he said -- far beyond its capacity.
"Doctors worked around the clock to do as much as they could. They just had to manage, that was all."
The city is no longer accessible, he added.
Red Cross staff are also concerned about what may be happening in other smaller centres south of Baghdad.
"We do not know what is going on in Najaf and Kabala. It has become physically impossible for us to reach out to those cities because the major road has become a zone of combat."
The Red Cross was able to claim one significant success this week: it played a key role in re-establishing water supplies at Basra.
Power for a water-pumping station had been accidentally knocked out in the attack on the city, leaving about a million people without water. Iraqi technicians couldn't reach the station to repair it because it was under coalition control.
The Red Cross was able to negotiate safe passage for a group of Iraqi engineers who crossed the fire line and made repairs. Basra now has 90 per cent of its normal water supply, said Huguenin.
Huguenin, a Swiss, is one of six international Red Cross workers still in Baghdad. The team includes two Canadians, Vatche Arslanian of Oromocto, N.B., and Kassandra Vartell of Calgary.
The Red Cross expects the humanitarian crisis in Iraq to grow and is calling for donations to help cope. The Red Cross Web site is: http://www.redcross.ca/
http://truthout.org/docs_03/040603A.shtml
.
-- Canadian Citizen and proud of it from Eastern Townships on 4/5/03; 10:26:44 AM
It continues to astound me how no one can or will answer my question? While we all are concerned about civilian casualties, why does no one mention the civilians killed by Saddam and his thugs every day? In case you have not noticed, our troops are using surgical stikes specifically to minimize such casualties. Never mentioned by the Bush haters - If the protesters were driven by something other than seething hatred of Bush (Pssst, the election is over) perhaps they could be objective about who the real bad guy is. They never, ever mention Saddam; very telling.
-- Judy from West Lebanon on 4/5/03; 9:59:23 AM
The Hilla Massacre, the Nasiriyah Massacre, and now the Baghdad massacre!
Call for a congressional investigation and courts-martial before there is a coverup, please...
The My Lai courts-martial are the stories of two tragedies growing out of American involvement in Viet Nam. One was the massacre by United States soldiers of as many as 500 unarmed civilians-- old men, women, children--in My Lai on the morning of March 16, 1968. The other was the cover-up of that massacre....
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/mylai.htm
Red Cross: 'Several Hundreds' Wounded in Baghdad
Sat April 5, 2003 04:35 AM ET
ZURICH (Reuters) - Several hundred wounded Iraqis have been admitted to Baghdad hospitals after U.S.-led troops reached the city and fighting erupted in the streets, the International Committee of the Red Cross said on Saturday.
"The situation in Baghdad is getting increasingly difficult now that there's fighting in the city," Red Cross spokesman Florian Westphal told Reuters by phone from the ICRC's headquarters in Geneva.
"There are now substantially more wounded in the hospitals (in Baghdad). Previously it was an average of about 100 every day, yesterday alone it was several hundreds," he said.
Westphal said Red Cross workers in Baghdad had visited four major hospitals on Friday. "They said there were hundreds of injured, not just from the bombardments, but also from the fighting."
He said it was impossible to say whether the wounded were civilians or soldiers.
Westphal said the Red Cross' priority was to ensure hospitals had enough water and electricity. "Many hospitals now have to rely on their emergency systems and we're helping to beef those up or repair them where necessary," he said.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3AKTTHOKZGGEICRBAE0CFFA?type=worldNews&storyID=2512925
'Liberated' City Where Looters Run Wild and Death Stalks the Streets
The third floor of the Saddam Hospital in Nasiriyah is not a place to linger. The corridor floors are filthy with water and grime, the plastic cover sheets on the beds are smeared with blood. The thick air tastes of decay and excrement, and it is all one can do not to retch.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0404-02.htm
-- Concerned Medical Professional from Hanover on 4/5/03; 6:31:22 AM
Its still all about "THE OIL" stupid!
In the pipeline: More regime change
An Israeli daily, Ha'aretz, has reported that Israel is seriously considering restarting a strategically important oil pipeline that once transferred oil from the Iraqi city of Mosul to Israel's northern port of Haifa. Given the Israeli claim of a positive US approach to the plan, the Israeli project provides grounds for a theory that the ongoing war against Iraq is in part a joint US, British and Israeli design for reshaping the Middle East to serve their particular interests, including their oil requirements.
According to the daily, Israeli National Infrastructure Minister Yosef Paritzky considers the pipeline project as economically justifiable as it would reduce the country's cost of oil imports.
unless the pipeline were redirected through Jordan, another country bordering Israel and Iraq with normalized relations with Israel, the pipeline project will require a different regime in Syria. In other words, regime change in both Iraq and Syria is the prerequisite for the project. As Paritzky did not mention a redirecting option, it is safe to suggest that the Israelis are also optimistic about a regime change in Syria in the near future.
According to the Israeli minister, the United States will back his project since the pipeline would bring Iraqi oil directly from Iraq to the Mediterranean. In such a case, the Americans could bypass the Persian Gulf for their imported Iraqi oil, while having secured access to the world's second-largest oil reserves. Especially since the early 1990s, they have repeatedly expressed their concern about over-reliance on the Persian Gulf for their oil imports, which contains more than 60 percent of the world's proven oil reserves. Given the concentration of the major oil exporters in that region, its instability could interrupt or completely stop the flow of oil by oil tankers, with a consequent major impact on the US economy, as it is so dependent on oil.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED04Ak01.html
-- Kappa Kappa Kappa from Hanover on 4/4/03; 8:04:03 PM
Our glorious, jack booted, war criminals have been very busy this week...
Widespread Use of Cluster Bombs by US Sparks Outrage
Confirmation by the US and Britain of widespread use of cluster munitions in Iraq caused anger yesterday among campaigners and politicians who claimed it ran counter to the coalition's aim to minimize civilian casualties.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0404-01.htm
US Cluster Bombs Liberate Iraqi Children
AMMAN - The horror. The horror. And unlike Apocalypse Now, there are real, not fictional images to prove it. But they won't be seen in Western homes. The new heart of darkness has emerged in the turbulent history of Mesopotamia via the Hilla massacre. After uninterrupted, furious American bombing on Monday night and Tuesday morning, as of Wednesday night there were at least 61 dead Iraqi civilians and more than 450 seriously injured in the region of Hilla, 80 kilometers south of Baghdad. Most are children: 60 percent of Iraq's population of roughly 24 million are children.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0403-09.htm
Wailing Children, the Wounded, the Dead:
Victims of the Day Cluster Bombs Rained on Babylon
The wounds are vicious and deep, a rash of scarlet spots on the back and thighs or face, the shards of shrapnel from the cluster bombs buried an inch or more in the flesh. The wards of the Hillah teaching hospital are proof that something illegal ˆ something quite outside the Geneva Conventions ˆ occurred in the villages around the city once known as Babylon.
The wailing children, the young women with breast and leg wounds, the 10 patients upon whom doctors had to perform brain surgery to remove metal from their heads, talk of the days and nights when the explosives fell "like grapes" from the sky. Cluster bombs, the doctors say ˆ and the detritus of the air raids around the hamlets of Nadr and Djifil and Akramin and Mahawil and Mohandesin and Hail Askeri shows that they are right.
Were they American or British aircraft that showered these villages with one of the most lethal weapons of modern warfare? The 61 dead who have passed through the Hillah hospital since Saturday night cannot tell us. Nor can the survivors who, in many cases, were sitting in their homes when the white canisters opened high above their village, spilling thousands of bomblets into the sky, exploding in the air, soaring through windows and doorways to burst indoors or bouncing off the roofs of the concrete huts to blow up later in the roadways.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0403-06.htm
Civilian Casualties 'Horrifying'
Truck Delivered Dismembered Women, Children
OTTAWA -- Red Cross doctors who visited southern Iraq this week saw "incredible" levels of civilian casualties including a truckload of dismembered women and children, a spokesman said yesterday from Baghdad.
Roland Huguenin, one of six International Red Cross workers in the Iraqi capital, said doctors were horrified by the casualties they found in the hospital in Hilla, about 160 kilometres south of Baghdad.
"There has been an incredible number of casualties with very, very serious wounds in the region of Hilla," Huguenin said in a interview by satellite telephone.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0404-14.htm
.
-- Viet Nam Vet Against the War from South Reading on 4/4/03; 6:52:57 PM
Judy: This ones for you. Why dont you boycott Pepsi? Why dont you join the US military? They need more girl heros. You also could drop cluster bombs on little, helpless kids.
Pearl Jam Stomps on Bu$h's Face
Incensed fans walked out of Pearl Jam's concert Tuesday after lead singer Eddie Vedder impaled a mask of President Bush on a microphone stand, then slammed it to the stage.
Most of Vedder's antiwar remarks earlier in the Pepsi Center show were greeted with mixed cheers and scattered boos. But dozens of angry fans walked out during the encore because of the macabre display with the Bush mask, which he wore for the song Bushleaguer, a Bush- taunting song from the band's latest album, Riot Act.
"When he was sharing his political views in a fairly benign manner - supporting our troops, opposing policy - that's OK," said Keith Zimmerman, of Denver.
"When he takes what looks like the head of George Bush on a stick, then throws it to the stage and stomps on it, that's just unacceptable. I love Pearl Jam, but that was just way over the edge. We literally got up and left."
Others joined Zimmerman, some complaining about the lyrics of Bushleaguer, which in part call Bush "a confidence man" and say, "He's not a leader / he's a Texas leaguer."
"I wasn't sure if it was really happening," said Kim Mueller. "We looked at each other and realized he really did have George Bush's head on a stick and was waving it in the air, then slam-med it to the ground and step-ped on it."
"It was like he decapitated someone in a primal ritual and stuck their head on a stick," Zimmerman said. "It kinda blows away the Dixie Chicks."
http://www.insidedenver.com/drmn/music/article/0,1299,DRMN_54_1860334,00.html
-- Dixie Chick Fan from Nashville on 4/4/03; 9:54:01 AM
When all else fails, the anti Bush people will resort to name-calling and personal attacks. Just be thankful our President is focused on the task at hand rather than an intern. Protesters NEVER mention the name of the butcher who tortures and kills his own people every day. Imagine articles and discussions of Iraq where there is not one mention of Saddam. Says a lot about who these protesters really are rooting for.
-- Judy from West Lebanon on 4/4/03; 9:17:25 AM
"Daisy Cutter" is the name of a 15,000lb bomb used in Iraq, which explodes at head height.
The Daisy Cutter
Daisy, Daisy
give me the head of John the Baptist
or another bearded fanatic
The Taliban favor the hirsute
but we are good Christian folk
and our chosen are smooth-chinned
Daisy, Daisy
immolate the hairy ones
cleanse their ethnic dust of
hens, children, terrorists and unseen wives
vaporize their souls, their
spleens, eyeballs, tongues and
tender parts
collect the charred bone fragments
for the charity of the Red Cross
for the Cross is our symbol
We may not get our man,
but by God,
Daisy,
we‚ll get someone
-- Anonymous from Stanstead on 4/3/03; 6:15:41 PM
George W. Bush Makes the Ultimate Wartime Sacrifice - He 'Gives Up Sweets'
USA Today's Judy Keen is the frontrunner for Media Whore of 2003, thanks to this amazing kneepad performance masquerading as a profile of "Bush at War." Here's a choice snippet: "People who know Bush well say the strain of war is palpable. He rarely jokes with staffers these days and occasionally startles them with sarcastic putdowns. He's being hard on himself; he gave up sweets just before the war began." Now THAT'S an inspiration to wartime America!!! Keen's article is so un-keen that it's utterly impossible to reconcile the contradictions. Is Bush paying attention to the War or not? Is he making key decisions or not? There's no way to tell from this article. But the most important word in this article is the one you simply cannot find. It's the one word that reveals who is really making the decisions about who will live and who will die, and what kind of Evil Empire America will become. That word is: C-H-E-N-E-Y.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=676&e=1&cid=676&u=/usatoday/20030402/ts_usatoday/5023089
GOP Senator Says Police and Firefighters should work Overtime without Pay
MurdochPost reports, "Powerful Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens (R) suggested yesterday that New York's cops and firefighters should work overtime without pay as a wartime sacrifice. 'I really feel strongly that we ought to find some way to convince the people that there ought to be some volunteerism at home. Those people overseas in the desert - they're not getting paid overtime ... I don't know why the people working for the cities and counties ought to be paid overtime when they're responding to matters of national security,' he said. 'Sixty of the 343 firefighters who died on 9/11 were off duty, volunteering to put their lives on the line. We've already done our share,' said Uniformed Firefighters Association President Steve Cassidy." That's a whole lot more than you can say for the Busheviks...
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/72554.htm
My wife and I were so inspired by learning that Mr. Bu$h gave up 'sweets', that we both decided to give up something also in order to support our brave troops. She has decided to give up imported beer for the duration, and I have decided to give up pornography! As for working overtime for free in order to support our glorious troops, we decided that we will do this only after our highly paid supervisors do this first.
-- Buster and Beverly from Jericho on 4/3/03; 5:12:01 PM
Children Killed and Maimed in Cluster Bomb Attack on Town...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0402-06.htm
Domingo de la Resurreccion
Drop a Bomb for Jesus, thats the Christian way;
Kill a kid for Mary, Missiles on the way;
Go to church for Jesus, Kneel on Easter Dawn;
While the smart bombs kill, small ones not yet born.
Parachute for Jesus, into Old Baghdad;
House to house we're killing, Muslems that are bad;
Gas them all for Jesus, make them sick and ill;
Then we'll take their oil, and send Saddam the bill.
Occupy for Jesus, Nation build again;
If it takes forever, killing ain't a sin;
Tell the troops for Jesus, its a holy war;
Let the dead and dying, pay the final score.
-- Rev Ike from Island Pond on 4/3/03; 11:36:14 AM
Veterans Are Growing Angrier at Bush by the Day
Bush the AWOL coward surrounded by chickenhawks or peacetime office jockey "vets" like Rumsfeld, finds it easy to ignore veterans, while sending a new batch of young people off to be killed or scarred by war. He preaches to a tiny choir of well-heeled rightwing vets not dependent on the VA, while sending belligerent anti-vet reps like Duncan Hunter onto C-SPAN to lie about how well the administration is treating vets who are dependent on benefits. But the vast majority of vets aren't deceived and know the truth: Bush doesn't give a damn. Last week, his GOP minions pushed thru a $25 billion cut in vet benefits - including disability benefits - over the next 10 years. Meanwhile the same folks are lobbying for massive tax cuts to the wealthy and billions in aid to W-ar allies.
http://classifieds.nstp.com.my/Current_News/MM/Sunday/National/20030330083546/sun_artrevamp
-- Viet Nam Vet from South Reading on 4/2/03; 6:49:55 PM
Thank Alfred E. Neuman for clarifying things
for us.
It certainly gave me a lift today.
-- Louise from Bradford on 4/2/03; 1:17:54 PM
Conscientious Objector Numbers Are Small but Growing
Antiwar groups say that an increasing number of military personnel are calling antiwar hot lines to say they do not want to fight in Iraq for religious, moral or political reasons. The military also reports that the number of enlisted people it has discharged as conscientious objectors, while few, has risen slightly in the past six months while troops were being mobilized for the war.
The law allows members of the military to obtain conscientious objector status if they can prove that during their training or service they developed a deeply held objection to all wars. If their objector application is accepted ˜ a lengthy process that requires interviews, essays and letters from character witnesses ˜ they can either be reassigned to noncombatant duties or discharged.
Although the military is now operating under wartime orders under which no discharges are permitted, it has been surprisingly willing to release those claiming conscientious objector status, according to the objectors and their lawyers.
http://commondreams.org/headlines03/0401-10.htm
Center On Conscience & War:
To Defend and Extend the Rights of Conscientious Objectors to War and Violence
http://www.nisbco.org/
.
-- Quaker Lady from Hanover on 4/1/03; 9:13:50 PM
TRANSLATING PENTAGONESEΣ.Black Humor from the War Zone
Here is your own handy guide to the terminology being used by the Pentagon to help the average American "understand" the war in Iraq.
SHOCK AND AWE: Flattening a nation‚s infrastructure with 100,000 bombs so your corporate buddies can make billions rebuilding and making more bombs. (note we are shocked that anyone can be this barbaric and awed that they can get away with it)
COALITION: The U.S., Britan, and Australia with a few Easter Islanders and Estonians thrown in.
ALLIED EFFORT: Having Britain do all the dirty work and pick up the tab for the humanitarian aid the US keeps promising to send to Iraq.
FOG OF WAR: 1. The excuse for anything that goes wrong, including shooting women and children at a checkpoint in a secured area; 2. The smokescreen created by war coverage that hides everything else Bush is doing
WINNING HEARTS AND MINDS: Shooting and bombing civilians, then offering them a plastic package of C-rations.
SPEEDING ACROSS THE DESERT: Being 50 miles away from Baghdad for 6 days in a row.
SADDAM TORTURE FACILITY: Any junk room where an old battery has been dumped.
EVIDENCE OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION: Anything we can get away with planting
COMBAT DEATH TOLL: The real number minus the ones we don‚t plan to report
FLEXIBILITY: The right for Donald Rumsfeld to withdraw a billion or two from the defense budget any time the spirit moves him without having to notify anyone.
ACCOUNTABILITY: No equivalent translation available outside Pentagon
EMBEDDED REPORTERS: Handpicked corporate "journalists" traveling with units deployed as far from real action as possible who write what they‚re told
UNPATRIOTIC: Having a problem with trashing other people‚s hometowns and slaughtering the residents
SADDAM LOVER: Anyone who has a problem with G.W. Bush
SMART BOMBS: Any bomb that actually lands inside Iraq
PRECISION WARFARE: An army that does precisely what G.W. Bush wants it to do, no questions asked.
EVILDOER: Citizens of any country with oil beneath its soil, with an exception made for North Korea (but, as there is no oil beneath its soil, they aren‚t considered evil enough to invade).
BALANCED MEDIA COVERAGE: A segment of Meet the Press where Donald Rumsfeld sits on one side of Tim Russert and Dick Cheney Sits on the other.
-- Alfred E. Neuman from Barnamville, Vermont on 4/1/03; 6:55:21 PM
Anti-War Groups Will Honor Dr. King with Local Actions from Coast to Coast April 4 to 7
United for Peace and Justice Calls for Immediate Cease Fire and Withdrawal of Troops from Iraq
Activists Cite Legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. on the Anniversary of His Assassination
NEW YORK - March 31 - Acting in the tradition of the late Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. United for Peace and Justice has called for anti-war activities over the weekend of April 4 to 7. From vigils and rallies to mass leafleting and civil disobedience, anti-war protesters around the country will link their messages of peace with broader themes of social and economic justice.
According to UFPJ co-chair, Leslie Cagan, "The Bush Administration is spending billions of dollars in an unprovoked, illegal and immoral attack on Iraq while they ignore the plight of people at home."
Cagan said the latest round of activism will urge an immediate end to the war and withdrawal of troops from Iraq. UFPJ's latest call to action states: "We must keep the pressure on the Bush Administration because of its rogue interaction in the world community, its ignoring of international public opinion, and its disregard for the international diplomatic community in the UN. We must mobilize to stop the war now in order to save as many lives as possible. We must stop the war now so we can prioritize education, jobs and economic recovery instead of militarism and destruction." Dr. King is regarded as the nation's foremost advocate for peace and justice, articulating the link between immoral war abroad and racism and poverty at home. This weekend's activities are being conducted in his honor.
Below are some of the activities supported by United for Peace and Justice; a comprehensive listing of local events can be found at
www.unitedforpeace.org
.
-- Susan from Hanover on 4/1/03; 8:31:29 AM
Shame on NBC a.k.a. "now being censored"?
for firing Peter Arnett who actually spoke the
truth and is not embedded up the proverbial
Pentagon "back side".
Kudo's to the Brits for hiring him on within
minutes it seems of getting the boot from NBC.
A Pulitzer prize winner speaks the truth as he
sees it as a citizen of the US and this is the treatment he gets?
First NBC backs him and next they fire him?
Come on people, when will this stop?
We need the truth in order to make good decisions
and this makes me smell the rat all the more clearly.
-- Louise from bradford on 3/31/03; 9:25:22 PM
Judy:
Your US Seig Heiler baby killers were very busy today!
US Troops Kill Seven Women, Kids at Iraqi Checkpoint
US troops opened fire on a civilian vehicle at a military checkpoint in southern Iraq, killing seven people and wounding two, a US military spokesman said.
US troops kill seven women, kids at checkpoint: US military
The shooting occurred at a checkpoint manned by soldiers from the US Army's Third Infantry Division at Najaf, 150 kilometers (95 miles) south of Baghad on Monday afternoon, Navy Lieutenant Commander Charles Owens said here.
He said the victims, women and children, were in a vehicle that failed to stop despite repeated warning shots fired by US troops. Four people in the vehicle escaped unharmed.
"As a last resort, they (US troops) fired into the passenger compartment of the vehicle," Owens said at US Central Command's forward planning base here.
"When soldiers opened the vehicle they found 13 women and children inside. Seven of the occupants were dead, two were wounded and four were unharmed."
http://commondreams.org/headlines03/0331-11.htm
Rutbah Childrens Hospital Bombed
a hospital in Rutbah, Iraq was bombed Wednesday, with dead and injured. The travelers said they saw no significant Iraqi military presence near the hospital or elsewhere in Rutbah. The doctor did not discuss casualties, the Americans said.
http://commondreams.org/headlines03/0331-02.htm
.
-- Viet Nam Vet Ashamed of His Country from South Reading on 3/31/03; 6:06:47 PM
Tell the US troops in Iraq the truth. They are war criminals and millions of US citizens do not support them. Bring them home now!
War protesters blocked traffic and some were pepper-sprayed and arrested during a snowy demonstration in Pittsburgh on Sunday, while thousands of protesters marched through Philadelphia in a cold rain.
In Philadelphia, several thousand people braved the weather, many wearing buttons that read "Bring Our Troops Home." Interspersed in the crowd were plainclothes officers wearing police armbands.
In Pittsburgh, a group of protesters estimated by police at 250 began with a permitted rally at Frick Park, banging drums and chanting slogans against the war. But they then began an unpermitted march through residential areas, blocking traffic along a major thoroughfare.
Several were sprayed by police with pepper spray when they stepped off the narrow sidewalk. Pittsburgh police said three people were arrested by suburban police and had to be dragged away because they refused to walk.
In Los Angeles, a crowd estimated by police at 5,000 marched through downtown in an early spring heat wave that brought temperatures into the 80s. The march was peaceful and there were no arrests.
"Who would Jesus bomb?" asked a sign carried by Evan Levang, 40.
"It's just a statement on the hypocrisy of people who claim to be spiritual and support massive bombardments," Levang said.
In Oak Ridge, Tenn., about 200 peace activists danced in the street leading to the Y-12 nuclear weapons plant, blocking access until scores of law enforcement officers made a handful of arrests.
In St. Louis, organizers of "The World Wants Peace Rally" near the World's Fair Pavilion in Forest Park announced the turnout at more than 4,500. Police believed the crowd was closer to about 2,000 people.
"We must not be deterred by those who characterize us as un-American and unpatriotic. Our citizenship is not the issue," said The Rev. B.T. Rice, an area black leader. He added that protesters back U.S. troops but condemn a war that opponents deem unjust.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57589-2003Mar31.html
The United Nations must try President Bush and his allies as war criminals, a top Indonesian politician demanded Monday as protesters elsewhere denounced the war in Iraq as illegal and voiced concern for its victims.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57564-2003Mar31.html
-- Susan from Hanover on 3/31/03; 8:28:27 AM
We just heard from our daughter who is a Army Nurse in Germany. She says they are not prepared or equipped for the number of casualties they have been getting and they are swamped with work and shortages of nurses and doctors, and medical supplies. They were told that this war would not produce many casualties and would be over so quickly that all the medical units would be given long leaves stateside. Now they are working round the clock and she feels many patients are getting only enough care to keep them alive. She tells many horror stories and says their should be a congressional investigation. She says dont expect them to be home for XMAS. The demonstrations against the war number in the thousands and they simply cannot wear their uniforms anywhere in the country or they will be attacked by angry crowds.
Wounded British soldiers condemn US 'cowboy' pilot
British soldiers injured when a US aircraft attacked their convoy, killing one of their comrades, hit out angrily at the "cowboy" pilot today.
Troops wounded in Friday's attack accused the A-10 Thunderbolt pilot of "incompetence and negligence", while others privately called for a manslaughter prosecution.
Full story: Audrey Gillan with the Household Cavalry in Iraq
Five British soldiers have died under 'friendly fire'. Yesterday as General Richard Myers apologised for the three deaths caused by the US, saying it would be his 'quest' to ensure it did not happen again, the first full account emerged of the tragic incident in which a A-10 tankbuster fired on two British armoured vehicles
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,926261,00.html
Royal Marine dies in river ambush
Two LCVPs - landing craft vehicle platforms - were checking the river. When they came to a junction the first craft continued forward and the second, which had halted, came under gunfire.
It retreated immediately but as the other craft returned to help, it came under attack from the riverbank. The wheelhouse was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade and heavy machine gun rounds, seriously injuring three marines.
The injured were given first aid before being flown to a field hospital. One man was saved by his flak jacket, but another later died.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,926219,00.html
Three US soldiers die in helicopter crash
A US helicopter has crashed at a forward supply and refuelling point in southern Iraq, killing three marines and injuring a fourth.
A US military spokesman said the Marine UH-1 "Huey" helicopter was not brought down by hostile fire and a Pentagon official in Washington speculated that bad weather might have been to blame.
"Early indications are that, on take-off, the helicopter crashed," the Pentagon official told Reuters. There have been at least two other fatal US and British helicopter crashes since the war began.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,926261,00.html
The best way to support our troops is to bring them all home now.
-- Mr & Mrs X from Lyme on 3/31/03; 6:43:45 AM
Pentagon: List of U.S. Iraq War Dead Now 38
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon updated its official Iraq war casualty list on Sunday, putting the number of Americans dead at 38.
A spokesman said the list lags events on the battlefield by 48 hours or more, however, meaning the total does not include four soldiers killed in a suicide bombing on Saturday and three Marines killed in a helicopter crash on Sunday.
Among the 38 dead, 30 Americans were killed by hostile fire and eight others died in accidents and other "non-hostile" incidents.
Some 104 Americas are listed as wounded but that number is considered very tentative, the spokesman said.
In addition, 17 Americans are missing in action and seven are prisoners of war.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53667-2003Mar30.html
Soldiers Facing Death Asked to Pray For Bush
"They may be the ones facing danger on the battlefield, but US soldiers in Iraq are being asked to pray for President George W Bush.
Thousands of marines have been given a pamphlet called "A Christian's Duty," a mini prayer book which includes a tear-out section to be mailed to the White House pledging the soldier who sends it in has been praying for Bush.
"I have committed to pray for you, your family, your staff and our troops during this time of uncertainty and tumult. May God's peace be your guide," says the pledge, according to a journalist embedded with coalition forces.
The pamphlet, produced by a group called In Touch Ministries, offers a daily prayer to be made for the US president, a born-again Christian who likes to invoke his God in speeches.
Sunday's is "Pray that the President and his advisers will seek God and his wisdom daily and not rely on their own understanding".
Monday's reads 'Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics.'" --abc,
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s819685.htm
-- Grim Reaper from Valhalla on 3/30/03; 5:49:46 PM
Judy: This songs for you:
The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag
Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Old Baghdad
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Old Baghdad;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds -
The only good Muzzie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Old Baghdad;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Huh!
Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Fedayheen.
And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Old Baghdad.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Old Baghdad.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Old Baghdad.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
-- Country Joe from Windsor County on 3/30/03; 1:55:57 PM
Susan - I just watched an interview with a couple who has THREE sons deployed at this moment. It broke my heart when she read his latest letter in which he asks," Does anyone at home support us out here?" These troops are acutely aware of what you negative, anti-war/Bush are doing around here. It obviously is upsetting the troops and that can't be good for morale or performance. Is this what you want??? Please hear the words of that soldier and think about what you are doing. All they ask is support while they are over there.
-- Judy from West Lebanon on 3/30/03; 10:08:13 AM
Surround the White House on April 12
International Answer writes, "On Saturday, April 12, join the tens of thousands of people of conscience who will surround the White House. The whole world is watching to see if the people of the United States can intensify the power of the anti-war movement at the moment that the Bush Administration is intending to slaughter tens of thousands of Iraqi people and occupy their country. We urge every anti-war organizer and concerned person to bring your friends, neighbors and family members to this all-important mobilization on April 12... The world has entered a new phase. The Bush Administration is hell bent on world domination. The war on Iraq was meant to signal that the U.S. use of raw military power will be the means to create a new era of Empire."
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/a12/
.
-- Susan from Hanover on 3/29/03; 8:37:29 PM
One of the questions I had is: why didnt the Iraq Army blow up all the bridges as the US troops advanced? Now the answer is obvious. They wanted to suck the US troops into hostile territory as far as they could until they outran their supply lines. Now, of course, they will blow up all the bridges so the US troops cant retreat.
What a blood bath, turkey shoot, the US retreat is going to be. They will save all their food and water and abandon all the heavy stuff like M1 tanks, that only get one half mile per gallon, and 155 howitzers which are to heavy to carry. The poorly equipped Iraq irregulars will now suddenly become very well equipped as they pick up all this abandened equipment.
Then as the turkey shoot continues, the US will have to leave the sick and wounded behind, it will be every man for himself. Lots and lots of helicopters will be shot down as they make brave but risky attempts to rescue the wounded, just like in Viet Nam.
All this will happen in full view of the world, and more importantly, in full view of the enemy, who is getting 'real time' information / intelligence now about our US troops running short on food, fuel, water, ammo. This is like feeding blood to the sharks.
God help us if the Iraq irregulars capture one of our tactical nuclear 155 mm shells as the big guns are left behind, or if they capture our bio/chem weapons units, cause they will surely use this stuff immediately.
Our other problem, is that the US may be the FIRST to use tactical nuclear/biological/chemical weapons in order to save these trapped US troups, as they panic and shoot their officers in futile attempts to save their own lives.
Commander in Chief Bush sure has rewritten a new chapter in the annels of military history, but not in the way we had all hoped.
War is always unpredictable.
-- Military Historian from Northfield on 3/29/03; 5:01:28 PM
British MP Sees Catastrophe Ahead
LONDON, Mar 29 - Labour Party MP Tam Dalyell, revered as the 'father' of the British Parliament, sees catastrophic times ahead if the war on Iraq continues.
‰God only knows how this will end,‰ Dalyell told IPS in an interview Saturday. ‰But if it must be ended sensibly, ‰I can only say that there should be a ceasefire forthwith that is mandated and administered by the UN. It is clear already that this talk of achieving a regime change is fanciful.‰
Dalyell said: ‰They have not just miscalculated, they have completely misunderstood the nature of Iraqi society and its institutions.‰
Just the heat in Iraq can become a major problem, he said. ‰Napoleon and Hitler perished in the snow before Moscow,‰ he said. ‰I think the allied armies will be frizzled by the sun on the gates of Baghdad.‰
The blunders have been covered by a litany of lies in the build-up to the war, Dalyell said. There is little that the British government is saying that can be believed, he said.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0329-02.htm
Notwithstanding Bush Speech, Veterans' Groups Not Monolith on Iraq
Many Vets, Retired Officers Question Iraq War;
WASHINGTON - March 28 - President Bush's speech to veterans garnered applause at the White House today as he praised coalition forces in Iraq. But despite claiming support from what the President termed "the veterans' groups" for the war and a supplemental appropriation of $75 billion to fund it, individual veterans and organized veterans' groups are also on record strongly questioning the wisdom of the Iraq invasion and voicing concerns over the potential for massive casualties.
http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0328-13.htm
-- VLS Student from South Royalton on 3/29/03; 11:20:10 AM
Bu$h's Illegal War is not going well: civilian suicide bombers just blew up a army checkpoint, killing 5 US soldiers. Syria, Jorden, Iran are sending troops in to fight against the US invaders. Supplies are running low, supply lines are being cut, Official count of the US wounded is now well over 104 and climbing. Reinforcements are still weeks away. Another Dunkirk disaster?
Scott Ritter Tells Cornell Students That US Will Lose War...http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0328-09.htm
Beans, bullets and Band-aids in short supply
From Chris Ayres near al-Diwaniyah
THIS is a force of Marines that has run out of energy on a patch of mud in the central Iraqi marshlands.
What was supposed to be a ten-day sprint towards Baghdad ended yesterday when the US Marines 11th regiment came to rest. The force had all but exhausted its supplies of fuel, food rations, ammunition and water, and morale was at an all-time low.
The officers said that it lacked everything: „beans, bullets and Band-Aids.‰
The final straw was an aborted mission on Thursday to capture an airfield that proved too small to bother about, and was surrounded by sniperinfested civilian buildings.
The tanks alone had used hundreds of gallons of diesel fuel on the 40-mile round trip. The return journey was made more difficult by the Marines‚ own unexploded munitions, which littered the road. One young Marine stepped on a hidden dud round, losing his foot.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-627174,00.html
US turns sights on Syria and Iran
THE war in Iraq threatened to spill over into neighbouring countries yesterday when Washington warned Syria and Iran to stay out of the fight.
Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, accused Syria of arming President Saddam Hussein. He said the shipments, including nightvision goggles, were a direct threat to US and British forces and he added that Washington would hold Damascus accountable for „hostile acts‰ if the traffic continued.
Mr Rumsfeld said the movement of military supplies, equipment and people across the Syrian border „vastly complicates our situation‰. Asked if he was threatening Damascus with military action, he replied: „I‚m saying exactly what I‚m saying. It was carefully phrased.‰
Mr Rumsfeld also said that hundreds of revolutionaries of the Badr Corps, who are trained, equipped and directed by the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard, were operating inside Iraq. He said American forces would be forced to treat them as enemy „combatants‰ and the Iranian Government would be held responsible for their actions.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-627288,00.html
Support our troops, bring them home now, while they are still alive and we can still get the wounded and body bags out also.
.
.
-- Rev. Ike from Island Pond on 3/29/03; 9:34:56 AM
Susan - I keep asking anti-war/Bush folks why they aren't concerned about the thousands killed by Saddam on a regular basis? Don't they have a right to live in a more civilized environment where they don't fear rape, brutality and murder? None of the anti-war/ Bush protesters mention what we are seeing happen in Iraq under the reign of a brutal dictator. How about a sign at your rally protesting Saddam?
-- Judy from West Lebanon on 3/29/03; 6:08:59 AM
3/29 New England Anti-War March and Rally
On Saturday, March 29, all New England will assemble in Boston to demand peace. Join us at 11:30 AM on Boston Common for a peace rally and festival of non-violent resistance, featuring music, street theater, speakers, poetry and puppetry. After the rally we will march - and the police have banned parking on the downtown streets so that at the end of the march we can hold an enormous "die-in." Like a "wave" at Fenway Park, tens of thousands of people will lie down on Boston's main street in symbolic solidarity with the people now being killed by the American war in Iraq.
http://www.unitedforpeace.org
-- Susan from Hanover on 3/28/03; 8:12:37 PM
Support the Warrior Not the War: Give Them Their Benefits! Bu$h Cuts VA Benefits
The recent rally cry "Support Our Troops" seems to me little more than a perverted, propaganda ploy to "Support the War." But we can support our troops, without supporting the war, by rectifying some of the following conditions.
The House of Representatives have recently voted on the 2004 budget which will cut funding for veteran's health care and benefit programs by nearly $25 billion over the next ten years. It narrowly passed by a vote of 215 to 212, and came just a day after Congress passed a resolution to "Support Our Troops." How exactly does this vote support our troops? Does leaving our current and future veterans veterans without access to health care and compensation qualify as supporting them?
The Veteran's Administration, plagued by recent budget cuts, has had to resort to charging new veterans entering into its system a yearly fee of $250 in order for them to receive treatment. It is a sad irony that the very people being sent to fight the war are going to have to pay to treat the effects of it.
According to the Veteran's Administration, 28 million veterans are currently using VA benefits. Another 70 million Americans are potential candidates for such programs. This amounts to a quarter of the country's population. Veterans and their families will sadly begin finding that they have no place to turn for their medical treatment as V.A. hospitals across the country face closing their doors. With the budget shrinking, staff will be let go. This could mean the loss of over 19,000 nurses. Without these nurses, this leads to the loss of over 6.6 million outpatient visits. Approximately one out of every two veterans could lose their only source of medical care. That is, if they even realize help is available to them. The Bu$h Administration recently ordered V.A. medical centers to stop publicizing available benefits to veterans seeking assistance. This follows discontinued enrollments of some eligible veterans for healthcare benefits as of January, 2003.
Bu$h Administration funding cuts will also prevent veterans from receiving their disability pensions. Under the Bu$h administration, being granted the ability to receive war related compensation has become a rare privilege, not a right as it should be. Nearly a third of Gulf War veterans, about 209,000 veterans, have submitted claims to to the VA for disability. The backlog of unprocessed claims has reached the astronomical count of 489,297, a number which is unfortunately increasing all of time. There are also currently 500,000 Compensation and Pension cases still pending.
Making matters worse, forty percent of Vietnam Veterans are homeless. They went from the jungles of the war to the jungles of the street. Before President Bu$h decided to declare war, maybe he ought to have considered correcting this situation first. How many current veterans will return home, only to find themselves in the same situation?
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0328-11.htm
-- Viet Nam Vet from South Reading on 3/28/03; 5:59:52 PM
Semper Fi,
I hate to inform you that we may never get an
accurate count of dead and missing soldiers.
That wouldn't be good for morale now would it?
What is up with the 18 people "unaccounted for"?
I too would like an accurate accounting of what
is going on in Iraq, but with the media embedded with the Pentagon, the "truth" will never reach
us.
-- Louise from Bradford on 3/28/03; 1:31:08 PM
From Russia with blood: missile attack kills four Americans
In a surprise attack south of Najaf, Iraqis used a Russian-made anti-tank missile to destroy a US tank, killing its four crew.
A US light-armoured vehicle was also hit, injuring several marines.
US commanders did not know that the Iraqis possessed the type of missile used in the tank attack. The missile can penetrate the armoured plating of US tanks that are at the front of huge convoys of about 20,000 first division marines as they move towards Baghdad.
Discarded Iraqi uniforms were booby trapped, marines found. Roads have been mined.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/27/1048653807477.html
That "light at the end of the tunnel" appears to be the headlights of a oncoming freight train!
Will the last Anglo/American out of Iraq please turn out the lights?
-- Colonel Jubulation T. Cornpone from East Braintree on 3/27/03; 6:32:39 PM
US troops hurt in friendly fire
March 27 2003, 8:04 PM
Related links:
Dozens of US marines were wounded today in a friendly fire clash near the southern Iraqi town of Nasiriyah while the US army beefed up its forces in the north and south, as the war to oust President Saddam Hussein entered its second week.
Shell and mortar fire apparently hit the marine command post headquarters near Nasiriyah, leaving 37 wounded, with three in critical and two in serious condition, officers told an AFP correspondent travelling with the troops.
The headquarters compound returned fire, officers said, but casualty reports from the other side were not immediately available. A US Central Command spokesman in Qatar said the incident was under investigation.
The clash near Nasiriyah, which destroyed at least six military vehicles, came amid renewed air strikes overnight and early today on Baghdad, mainly on the southern edge of the capital, home to the huge Al-Rasheed military camp.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/27/1048653801459.html
...I cant seem to find a accurate count on US wounded, but it must be well over 100 plus now and climbing. (Plus British dead and wounded)
U.S. OFFICIALS PONDER WHAT LEVEL OF CASUALTIES WILL BE ACCEPTABLE TO PUBLIC...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/27/international/worldspecial/27CASU.html?ex=1049346000&en=b4841657b50da30e&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
I would like to hear comments on how many US dead and wounded would be acceptable to the citizens of the upper valley before they demand a halt to this madness?
-- Sempter Fi from Windsor on 3/27/03; 11:31:11 AM
Are We Winning Yet?
The history of urban warfare tells a consistently grim story. The battle of Stalingrad, in 1942-43, lasted six months and left 1.5 million people dead. At the end of World War II, the Soviets took two weeks to capture Berlin, at a cost of over 10,000 lives, even though many Germans were fed up with Hitler, who had taken to his bunker on the verge of defeat. Even in Manila, a Japanese naval commander and his poorly armed men put up such fierce resistance to the U.S. occupation that much of the city ended up destroyed in the conflict. In the Korean War, the recapture of Seoul cost the lives of over 2,000 U.S. Marines. In 1967, the Israeli army suffered several hundred casualties in the seizure of East Jerusalem. In 1968, the battle of Hue, the South Vietnamese city captured by North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers, resulted in 5,000 deaths, including 400 U.S. Marines. In 1973, Israel lost over 100 soldiers while trying to capture Suez City before a U.N. cease-fire.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2080698/
Casualties grow as troops head north
As coalition forces made their way through Iraq, the number of casualties was growing, combat-related and otherwise, on both sides.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/888496_asp.htm?0cv=CB10
Just when I was thinking that Bu$h and Rummy couldnt make things worse, I hear that the US just dropped 1,000 lightly armed paratroopers in northern Iraq to secure the Northern oilfields. These guys dont even have vehicles much less armour and artillery.
Sitting ducks is what they are. Of course the Pentagon assures us they will be welcomed as liberators with open arms and flowers by the Kurds, Turks and northern Muslems who want to be free from Saddam.
INSANITY is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
-- Bean Counter from Hanover on 3/26/03; 6:37:16 PM
Far from being a new 21st century type war envisioned by Rummy, this war is shaping up as a plain old fashioned disaster. It is obviously a Guerilla war where the Guerillas allow the invaders to dangerously extend their razer thin supply lines deep into hostile territory and then move to cut them off and kill them all.
Every American who loves our troops now has to ask "How many of our troops can we extract alive, and if there is a way to get any of them out at all?" "Should we start getting them out now while we still can?"
This campaign looks exactly like the US retreat from the Yalu River to the Puson Parimeter in Korea, or Napoleons retreat from Moscow, or Burgoynes disasterous march from Montreal to Saratoga in our own Revolutionary War.
If we cant take a small city like Basra, how the heck are we going to take a major city like Baghdad?
Notice how the Pentagon is covering up all bad news? How many dead and wounded do we have so far? Friendly fire is knocking out tanks and helicopters and even 'coalition' aircraft. I notice that every time the real time tv news embedded coverage mentions 'two M1 tanks knocked out'; or 'Bradley vehicles on fire'; or 'Centurian Tank kills another Centurian tank'; etc. this news disappears shortly never to be mentioned again.
The supply lines are being attacked now and our troops are running short of ammo, food, water, and medical supplies because the planners expected them all to surrender and welcome us with open arms.
Call your congressmen and demand accurate body counts, wounded counts and pow/mia counts now.
-- Rev. Ike from Island Pond on 3/26/03; 12:30:12 PM
The folling is a story from the Toronto Star:
Is Saddam winning the political war?
THOMAS WALKOM
Saddam Hussein is almost certain to lose the military war in Iraq. Politically, however, he is winning.
This is not trivial. A political win may not stop the Iraqi leader from being deposed. But it can deny America real victory.
For months, analysts have puzzled over how Saddam would defend himself against the most powerful nation in the world.
Some said he would use chemical and biological weapons against invading U.S. and British forces.
Others predicted he would repeat his actions in the first Gulf War and target Israel, in order to draw the Jewish state (and thus other Arab countries) into the conflict.
These scenarios could still come to pass. But up to now, Saddam has focused on the political elements of the struggle with the United States. And in this, he has proved himself far more adept than U.S. President George W. Bush.
This is not to suggest that Bush is politically maladroit. He has a keen understanding of his own country, and has deftly used the fear generated by the Sept. 11 terror attacks to bolster support for a radically aggressive foreign policy that, in normal times, Americans might well reject.
But when it comes to larger political issues, Bush and those around him have shown that they either do not understand or do not care to understand.
First, the U.S. miscalculated the response of Iraqis to any invasion. It forgot that people don't take kindly to foreigners telling them what to do, no matter how noble the intentions.
Relying on the fact that Saddam is a cruel dictator, U.S. war planners assumed that most ordinary Iraqis would welcome anyone who entered their country to depose him.
But as reports from journalists entering southern Iraq demonstrate, this is far from true. The BBC describes Iraqis in the so-called liberated towns as sullen and bitter. Others write of lawlessness and of Iraqi civilians berating the American-led coalition for shelling their towns.
Throughout the south, the U.S. and British have run into far fiercer resistance than they anticipated. Yet the south was supposed to be the easy part, the section of Iraq populated by Shiite Muslims opposed to Saddam.
By contrast, Saddam has described U.S. intentions in language that his countrymen can comprehend. He says Bush wants Iraq's oil.
Iraqis, many of whom can remember a time when another imperial power controlled their oil fields, understand this. The fact that the U.S. says it plans to use Iraqi oil revenues to pay U.S. firms to rebuild Iraqi infrastructure that the U.S. is now destroying, also lends credence to Saddam's storyline.
Indeed, although many in the West might not like to admit this, Saddam's explanation for the war makes much more sense than Bush's.
Which leads to Washington's second great political failure. It has not been able to supply a plausible reason for this war.
Many Americans (and some Canadians) have accepted ˜ in the face of all evidence ˜ the U.S. rationale that Iraq is somehow connected to the Sept. 11 attacks. But as Arthur Schlesinger Jr., a former aide to John F. Kennedy, wrote recently in the Los Angeles Times, almost no one else in the world buys this.
"Today, it is we Americans who live in infamy," he wrote.
Weapons of mass destruction? To U.S. embarrassment, Saddam has not used the chemical and biological weapons it claims he has stockpiled. Even the few missiles he fired (incorrectly labelled in the media as Scuds) were, the Pentagon acknowledges, legal under United Nations Security Council resolutions.
The public relations nightmare faced by Bush is that this war might prove that Saddam was not lying when he said he no longer possessed such weapons.
Indeed, so low is U.S. credibility on this front that even if coalition troops produce evidence of chemical and biological weaponry, much of the world will assume it has been fabricated by the CIA.
Already, Saddam has won political victories. He stymied Britain and the U.S. at the United Nations through the simple strategy of (eventually) agreeing to successive Security Council demands.
Similarly, Iraqi compliance, and Bush's inability to come up with a plausible rationale for his war, has won sympathy among the peoples of neighbouring states.
Turkish public opinion prevented the U.S. from opening a second front in Iraq's north. Jordan's government is coming under increasing public criticism for its under-the-table co-operation with Bush.
Saddam's hope, presumably, is that the longer the war drags on, the more nervous Jordan, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia will become about supporting the U.S., and that this, in turn, could derail the invasion.
The laws of probability suggest such hopes are misplaced. However, the longer it takes for America to achieve military victory, the more hollow that victory threatens to become.
Anti-Americanism is at a level not seen for 30 years. While, Bush and those around him may not care about this, they should. Armed conquest is the simple part.
-- Zygote Little from Windsor on 3/26/03; 6:28:37 AM
The best way to support our troops is to demand that they be brought home, alive and whole. I can't see how I can be supporting our troops when I expect them to take a bullet for me.
-- EJ from Norwich on 3/25/03; 10:46:09 PM
Paper Shredder Horror Story Exposed as Lie Concocted by CBN's Pat Robertson and Moon's UPI
"Remember the 'Kuwaiti babies ripped from incubators' story in 1991? That tale really got Americans whipped into a frenzy, cheering the bombers on. Then, after the war, the woman who disseminated the story tearfully admitted it was a total fabrication during a Congressional hearing. Now the Bush II folks are spreading similar 'urban myths' to keep American bloodlust at fever pitch. The latest: UPI (now owned by Bush's friend the Reverend Moon) and his fellow rightwing religious fanatic Pat Robertson of the Christian Broadcasting Network are currently spreading around a manufactured story about how Saddam fed an officer into a paper shredder, delighting in his screams...this lurid fiction was reported 'first hand' by a 'human shield pastor' who from the 'Assyrian Church of the East.' Turns out there is no such 'pastor,' and, by extension, no such person." Cheryl Seal Reports 3/25
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/3314/index.php
"Hey, Hey, Georgie, Hey, How Many Kids Did You Kill Today?"
-- Pray For Peace from Norwich on 3/25/03; 5:46:31 PM
Remember, General Custer came within a few miles of the enemy camp also. His last words were: "Holy $hit, look at all them Freegin Indians!"
Civilian Deaths From Airstrikes on Baghdad Fuel Rising Anger
The U.S. war strategy has counted in part on separating the people of Iraq from the government of Hussein.
But the deaths and injuries from misdirected or errant bombs, or from shrapnel and fragments that spray into nearby homes even when the munitions find their intended target, are making more and more people believe that the United States is heedless of the Iraqi public.
The danger to coaltion forces is that when the decisive battle comes, many will rally to Hussein and take up arms against the U.S. and British troops.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0325-03.htm
Marines Losing the Battle for Hearts and Minds
Hopes of a joyful liberation of a grateful Iraq by US and British armies are evaporating fast in the Euphrates valley as a sense of bitterness, germinated from blood spilled and humiliations endured, begins to grow in the hearts of invaded and invader alike.
Attempts by US marines to take bridges over the river Euphrates, which passes through Nassiriya, have become bogged down in casualties and troops taken prisoner. The marines, in turn, have responded harshly.
Out in the plain west of the city, marines shepherding a gigantic series of convoys north towards Baghdad have reacted to ragged sniping with an aggressive series of house searches and arrests.
A surgical assistant at the Saddam hospital in Nassiriya, interviewed at a marine check point outside the city, said that on Sunday, half an hour after two dead marines were brought into the hospital, US aircraft dropped what he described as three or four cluster bombs on civilian areas, killing 10 and wounding 200.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0325-01.htm
-- Rev Ike from Island Pond on 3/25/03; 1:35:25 PM
For all your people who are concerned that things "aren't going well"...we have come within a couple dozen miles of Baghdad in less than a week. Statistically speaking, fewer coalition men and women have died in the process than have died on California roadways in the same time period. If your so-called noble protests are against the loss of life, I strongly suggest you protest outside the California department of transportation.
-- Scott from Lebanon on 3/25/03; 11:46:38 AM
Just a comment after reading this forum: It seems that some of the participants need to "stop biting the hand that feeds it" -- notice that there IS a way to access ALL of the past entries (click on Read Previous Comments) ... also it would be nice to respect the parameters: supply the urls just don't cut and paste whole articles here.
AND wouldn't it be nice if participants could adhere to the spirit of the forum ... a constructive discussion amongst neighbors and friends? If people want to lash out, personally attack each other and instigate useless cat-fights, etc. there are plenty of other places on the web to do that.
Our little neck of the woods just like the world as a whole need more than ever positive feelings, respect and kindness for each other -- not increased hatred and intolerance. It would be neat if the participants could make this forum an instrument of increased tolerance and peaceful co-existence, not just another outlet to "make war" on each other.
-- Sandy S. from Caledonia County on 3/25/03; 10:32:52 AM
Marching on Babylon: Is Billy Graham Leading Bush and the World to Armageddon?
"The Bible plainly forecasts the coming of yet another great war.... It will embrace most of the nations of the world; and its focal point will be in the Middle East... This great war has been called the battle of Armageddon. In the midst of this terrifying war that could destroy civilization the Lord Jesus Christ will return to this earth in glory and power to judge the nations of the world and set up His own glorious kingdom.... We are told that the waters of the Euphrates River will be 'dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared'... Unclean spirits, demons, will go out into the world to the kings of the earth 'to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty'." Read it yourself, from the Armageddon Page at the Web site of Bush's Mentor Billy Graham.
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/3286/index.php
Billy Graham on Armageddon
http://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=501
"Bush's Messianic Complex" by Michael Oritz, Counterpunch
http://www.counterpunch.org/hill01042003.html
If you have a strong stomach, here's the "Bible Prophecy and the Rapture Report:"
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/7895/aarome.html
The Middle East Conflict: Has It Been Engineered by Rightwing Christian Extremeists and Zionists hoping to Force "the Rapture" - Cheryl Seal, April 2002
http://www.unknownnews.net/cdd040302.html
See also:
http://newsinder.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~cherylseal/index.html
-- Rev. Ike from Island Pond on 3/25/03; 9:06:54 AM
What relevance does a forum have, when the forum managers delete everything?
-- Zygote Little from Windsor on 3/25/03; 7:25:21 AM
How the world sees it: the following is from the BBC's forum
Is it right to show PoWs?
Footage of captured American soldiers broadcast on Iraqi television violates the Geneva Convention, says the International Committee of the Red Cross.
The footage, which received a worldwide airing on the Arabic TV station al-Jazeera, has been condemned by the US and British governments, and by commanders of US-led coalition forces in Iraq.
Last week, pictures of surrendering Iraqi soldiers were shown across the world.
Should the videotape have been broadcast?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following comments reflect the balance of views we have received:
I'd say why not? I don't see the difference with CNN showing whole parts of cities burning and being bombed and cheering about it. This might have the advantage that it can show the American people that even a clean war is dirty. This being said, I live with the POWs and with all other victims on whatever side.
Peter, Belgium
Western journalists compound the offence
David Phillips, UK
That the pictures are being shown by the Hussein regime is no surprise. What comes as a disgusting addition is the scramble of Western journalists to compound the offence by repeating the broadcasts. They don't care for the families of those captured/killed, and shame themselves by their bandwagon mentality.
David Phillips, UK
Western media seem to think everything transmitted by means other than 'authorised' or 'recognised' by them, is wrong. Whilst it is wrong to air disturbing pictures of POWs, is it any worse than showing B52s, tornados and various other killing machines raining bombs on the targets below? Be honest folks, what do you think is happening when they explode? Women, men, children, are being destroyed. They don't think that's wrong do they?
Sal, East Ham, London
There is a difference. Iraqi POWs are being fed and given medical treatment and protection by the allies. US troops have been interrogated in the public eye and humiliated. The Iraqis took great joy in showing dead soldiers, some of whom appeared to have been executed. So, whilst you may argue that Iraqi TV is doing nothing different to what we have seen on BBC, Sky, ITV etc - there is a fundamental difference in the treatment of POWs and motives behind the TV pictures.
Chris, UK
American television shows Iraqi prisoners
Joyrul, Iraq
I think it is right to show POWs on TV because American television - Fox News - shows Iraqi prisoners. It does not violate the Geneva Convention when it is only used for the protection of US soldiers. Saddam is great man and we should clone him a couple of times to stabilise the international system.
Joyrul, Iraq
Yes, Americans need to see the reality of war and what happens to the soldiers. There is a difference in knowing the path and walking the path of war. America is now being forced to grow up and wear a few wrinkles.
Kristy Rice, USA
Show all captured enemy soldiers, but treat them in a humane way. Give them a right to speech.
Alex, Serbia and Montenegro
The US reaction to the videotape was a knee-jerk response to the first really negative coverage of this conflict that could unsettle opinion at home. Unfortunately the US and UK media have been unwilling to draw the obvious comparisons with Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay and thus the media once again cowers to the invading coalition.
Geoff Maguire, Ireland
It is improper to show POWs on TV
Sher Singh Parmar, India
It is improper to show POWs on TV, but neither the coalition nor Iraqi authorities have followed the Geneva Convention. All POWs deserve humane respect and treatment. They are simply carrying orders, they must not be physically or mentally punished!
Sher Singh Parmar, India
If it is wrong to show POWs why have the US started to show Iraqi POWs? What is correct for them is not correct for others? Why is broadcasting live images of bombing the cities and the war as a movie not criticised? It seems broadcasting the city on fire is correct but broadcasting the images of POWs is not. Broadcasting the pulling down of the Iraqi flag and putting up the US flag instead is also not correct.
Aziz Mahmut, USA
No, POWs should not be shown.
Faisal, Pakistan
I love it. Rumsfeld, Ashcroft and their gang hold hundreds of people in cages in Cuba and invite TV to show the world. Iraq displays five POWs on TV and is accused of war crimes. I hold no brief for the murderous Saddam Hussein, but let's try to keep a grasp on reality. The criminals here include the leaders of the illegal invasion.
Kevin Sinclair, Hong Kong, China
It was nothing short of crude propaganda
James, Shropshire, UK
No, the tape of US prisoners should not have been broadcast as it was nothing short of crude propaganda. Our press should have learnt from the parades of downed, beaten up pilots 12 years ago and not broadcast these images. However, I believe that the pictures of Iraqi prisoners shown so far were acceptable. The difference is that the Iraqis were not being interviewed or identified in front of the world's media.
Instead we were shown anonymous, disarmed prisoners, away from immediate danger, being fed and watered and receiving medical attention. All of which clearly demonstrates that the coalition are adhering to the demands of the Geneva Convention. In contrast, at least one of the US captives was obviously wounded in the right abdomen with no sign of that wound having been treated. As for the example of Camp X-Ray inmates being cited as an example of US abuse; those men are terrorist suspects, not lawful combatants and as such the Geneva Convention should not apply. Even if the US was in breach in Cuba that does not justify the Iraqi stance on this occasion.
James, Shropshire, UK
They should be shown because it lets loved ones know that their sons and husbands are safe. It also shows the world that all is not going according to the Rumsfeld Plan. If the bombing is so precise in Baghdad how was it possible that a civilian bus carrying Syrians was hit by a missile, killing five? The US and the UK are being more than a bit hypocritical by condemning footage of POWs taken by Iraq when they themselves are conducting a war without a proper UN resolution.
Paul J Pekar, Italy
We have all seen what happened to US POWs in Afghanistan. The stories of beating up people and humiliation were loudly spoken to the world. I do not remember that anyone was prosecuted in US Army for those war crimes. While Guantanamo is another, even more radical, story.
Valerij Juresic, Croatia
They do not deserve to be humiliated
Jessica Swan, USA
The violation occurs when the POW is displayed or paraded, not when a photograph or video captures images which includes wounded or killed POWs. For POWs the war is over. Imprison them and release them after cessation of hostilities. They do not deserve to be humiliated. The terrorist suspects in US custody are not POWs and do not fall under the conventions.
Jessica Swan, USA
If the US and their allies are showing the progress of the war live on TV why shouldn't the Iraqis show their catch live? Now they are chanting about the Geneva Convention when they were the first to breach UN's agreement.
Harold O Johnson, Sierra Leone
POW pictures should be shown to uncover US lies that the war is going to take 4-5 days and the Iraqis are going to welcome them. Do not forget that the Americans started showing their prisoners first. The question remains from the last war in Afghanistan: did the US treat the Taliban POWs under any international convention?
Sami, Egypt
Pictures of Afghan prisoners held in Afghanistan and in Guantanamo Bay were all over the news. The US never said it was against the Geneva Convention. Plus the US and UK soldiers held are not prisoners of war, they are foreign combatants and are therefore not covered by the Geneva Convention. That was the US excuse anyway. There is nothing like a taste of one's own medicine.
Damien Michelin, US
Under the Geneva Convention, no pictures of prisoners of war should be broadcast. The coalition, as well as the Iraqis, has violated this agreement.
Adias Teddy, Nigeria
What war? The US and UK did not officially declare war on Iraq so legally there is no war, only an "intervention". Double standards are being used. What happened to equality and justice for all? Does the US respect the Geneva Convention with its off-shore prisoners? Serbia and Montenegro were bombed by Nato four years ago today without the approval of the UN. Legally, that wasn't war either, but it set the precedent that justifies the current war in Western law.
Danimir, Serbia
They are too grisly for viewers to handle
Paulina G, Poland
Those close-up Iraqi TV pictures of the captured American soldiers being questioned by their captors near the sprawled bodies of four of their comrades I believe are too grisly for viewers to handle. It contravenes the rules set under the Geneva Convention re. the treatment of POWs. But most international media seemed not to care about it at all.
Paulina G, Poland
Appalling, the double standards we adhere to as a nation. Reality is that POW footage has been used in every war as a propaganda tool. The US is a huge offender of the Geneva Convention, not only in Guantanamo Bay, but let's not forget the slaughter of some 600 POWs outside of Mazar-i-Sharif in November 2001 which the US media conveniently swept under the rug. If the war is "too real" for American eyes, then perhaps they should change the channel. These are the realities of war and they should be exposed to make one think before casting a vote when choosing leaders. History forgets nothing.
Yianni Zoas, USA
The video should be shown because people need to be constantly reminded that war is not at all an antiseptic endeavour.
Michael Walter, USA
I think this is a "freedom of the press" issue. Whilst no-one wants to see humans suffering or paraded like animals, it's the press's duty to present all the data and facts. It's the consumers' responsibility to process this and decide what to do with it. I'd hate to be spoon fed any government propaganda that was unashamedly one sided. It's a war and we need to know what both sides are doing.
Dilip, USA
The sole purpose is to humiliate the captured men and women
Liam, USA
The actions of the Iraqis violates the Geneva Convention in that the sole purpose is to humiliate them and create a public curiosity of the captured men and women. The US/UK treatment of Iraqi soldiers is entirely different than the Iraqi "use" of disoriented and fearful soldiers in Iraqi custody.
Liam, USA
America is a shining example of democracy which abides by international laws and treaties. What it did in Guantanamo Bay with POWs from Afghanistan was well acceptable within Geneva conventions. The pictures of Iraqi POWs captured by coalition forces are also sanctioned by Geneva conventions. But with respect to Iraq showing pictures of POWs they've captured, it's unacceptable. What a big irony!
Lesego, Botswana
Yes, the videotape should have been broadcast. Not to let us see the horrors of war, but the brutality of the republican guards of Saddam's regime. I am convinced that the coalition forces are fighting our fight because the Iraqi people are tired and powerless against Saddam's machines. The time will come very soon when the Iraqi people will cheer the coalition forces.
Ayar, Manchester, UK
It was proper to expose them as the Americans exposed the Iraqis
George T, Stockholm, Sweden
It was proper to expose them as the Americans exposed the Iraqis! Can anybody explain to me how the US can advocate international democracy, while at the same time refuse to endorse the international law court for fear of US citizens facing trials in such courts?
George T, Stockholm, Sweden
Absolutely not. There is a substantial difference between showing mere seconds of a line of surrendering troops, and showing minutes of dead soldiers up close, and interrogations where each individual soldier is asked to ID themselves in front of a public audience. It is disgraceful, and so is trying to equate it to what the coalition troops are releasing to the media.
Xavier, Ottawa, Canada
Some of these conventions are inept. Times have changed, we live in the information age. It's what we see and hear today that equips us in making sober decisions tomorrow, and therefore nothing should be censored. Thanks to the technological advances, it's now easy to disseminate information to the whole world in seconds. The UK Government is quick to condemn Iraq for contravening international law, yet the very war they fight is very much in contravention.
Davis Motlhako, South Africa
It's amazing how the US and UK invoke double standards. We are involved in an illegal war and guilty of killing innocent civilians which is tantamount to war crimes and then we talk about Geneva Conventions when it comes to our POWs. Absolutely, the pictures must be shown since the US public gets a censored view from our own biased media. We need to see what our government is doing to other countries and how it's putting our own boys through hell for oil profits and world hegemony.
B Ishtiak, USA
If footage of tortured and executed Iraqis were shown in the US, there would be an absolute revolt
Angela, USA
Talk about comparing apples and oranges! Do you think showing pictures of surrendering Iraqis is really comparable to the video footage of executed and tortured POWs? I can assure you that, if footage of tortured and executed Iraqis were shown in the US, there would be an absolute revolt. We are actually a very caring and compassionate people. We understand that some of the Iraqis hate us, but many more need our help. If people really feel the need to view this footage, they can go on the net and find it. Putting it out there as a public display is wrong and unlawful.
Angela, USA
I see no reason why the video should not have been aired. Like others have said, the Americans showed the Iraqi prisoners without any problem. This is war, a wrong one, but nonetheless a war. War is hell and it isn't fair. Bring them home soon. Peace.
Travis, USA
Geneva Conventions are secondary to a UN security council mandate, which the US thrashed, and now it calls for going by the rules again. Talk about double standards! At least by showing the footage the family can know about their loved ones, or else the US would declare them "unaccounted for", causing more trauma.
Khan, Bahrain
I think the US is in no position to point out international law violations, since this war is illegal and violates UN charter. And what about the human rights of 600 prisoners in Camp Delta in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba? Clearly that is in violation of Geneva Convention too.
Patrice, UK
It simply lets the international community know the state of the POWs at the time of their capture
Kamalesh, India
Is it right to show PoWs? You can be sure that there is no violation of basic human needs and rights or any harm being done to the POWs after they are captured. It simply lets the international community know the state of the POWs at the time of their capture.
Kamalesh, India
I do not believe that it is right to show the pictures of American/British POWs. As long as the USA treats the prisoners from Iraq with respect, our POWs should be given the same treatment.
Edward V Sullivan, USA
It is said that Iraq has violated the Geneva Convention, but are the allied forces not in violation of countless conventions? Why is it not acceptable for the Iraqis to show POWs when all we see on the Western news programs are Iraqi POWs?
Mustafa Guler, Australia
No, the families are probably scared enough.
Denise, USA
Of course the video should be broadcast. It's a matter of public information available in a free society. Forget Bush!
Ethel Steadman, USA
War is hell, not an interactive video game
Carol Lynn Collins, USA
Yes, the footage should be shown so that Americans who support Bush's war can see the consequences of sending troops into war. War is hell, not an interactive video game.
Carol Lynn Collins, USA
Some have said here they "do not see the difference between the video of the American POWs and the Iraqi POWs". There is a distinct difference. The Iraqis are not being publicly identified, questioned or humiliated.
David Pryke, England
As my son says "This is war." Are there really rules of engagement in war? I don't see why our president gets so upset with it, as in our country the media shows pictures of dead people on TV and in the newspapers all the time. Where has the compassion for life gone?
Pam Cumberlander, USA
It is an outrage. I have seen the video of the dead troops and I cannot remember our guys executing people and then letting the BBC do a TV special. To me it justifies the war even more.
Marcus, England
My answer is simply this: Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself.
Uta Waller, Germany
It is absolutely abhorrent to show these pictures. Remember they are frightened human beings. By comparing this with other human rights violations in the past and using those as justification, these mothers, fathers, sons etc become mere pawns in a propaganda war. We should not condone this treatment if we wish to call ourselves civilised.
Caroline Jenner, UK
Bush and Blair sound a bit strange saying that it violates international agreements after they ignored perhaps the biggest international agreement
Aldo Giannone, UK
I disagree completely with showing footage of PoWs. However Bush and Blair sound a bit strange saying that it violates international agreements after they ignored perhaps the biggest international agreement - the UN's resolution.
Aldo Giannone, UK
No POWs should not be humiliated in this way and neither should Iraqi prisoners. Why does the US think one law applies to their actions and another to everyone else in the world?
Bill Scott, Scotland
I think it is hypocritical for people to say that we cannot show the footage of the American soldiers, but yet we can show the pictures of the Iraqis. If you want to be fair, show both or show neither. Or possibly some people are upset because it shows those who support this war that they might be wrong. Just a thought.
Lesa, USA
I don't see the difference between the video of American POWs and the videos we have been shown of thousands of Iraqis being led down roads with their hands on their head. Let's not forget that it is the allied forces who are the aggressors in Iraq - they invaded a country without provocation from its citizens.
Alex James, UK
Yes, the videotape should have been broadcast. The horrors of war should be exposed for all to see. All actions have consequences and we shouldn't be hidden from the consequences of our leaders' actions.
M Butler, UK
Perhaps not the bodies, but since the people that are being interviewed do not seem to be injured in anyway, I don't think there is any harm in showing the uncensored footage.
Piers Karsenbarg, UK
Unfortunately one of the first casualties of war is truth
Ian Stewart, UK
Unfortunately one of the first casualties of war is truth. The USA and the UK have the means to put across the messages they want throughout the world. Iraq has limited resources to do the same. Whatever Iraq says the USA will deny and the only way they can prove they have prisoners is to show proof. The USA has shown Iraq prisoners what is the difference?
Ian Stewart, UK
Until the next of kin have been contacted, the pictures should be censored. In the same way that dead soldiers names are not released until the next of kin have been contacted.
Jamie Gordon, UK
There was absolutely NO reason to show the tape on TV. Think about the family members who saw that first instead of hearing it in person from the military.
Teresa, USA
Showing footage of POWs that have been killed is inhumane and simply distasteful
Anna, UK
Showing footage of POWs will be distressing for the families, but at least they know they are alive. However, it is not right to show them being questioned. Showing footage of POWs that have been killed is inhumane and simply distasteful. Give these brave men and women their dignity and respect their families.
Anna, UK
Under the Geneva Convention, no pictures of prisoners of war whatsoever should be broadcast. This also applies to the pictures of Iraqi prisoners published by the coalition.
John C, UK
It's terribly wrong. But I cannot have been the only one to have seen coverage of a British soldier feeding water to an Iraqi prisoner of war, a gun to his head; nor the footage of another prisoner being searched at gunpoint; nor of a soldier being told to turn round and kneel down. All these too are in breach of the Geneva Convention. And what about the Cuban prisoners, whom the US government arbitrarily declared criminals caught red-handed, and who it holds without trial or any protection whatever? The laws apply to the US too.
SW, UK
We must set a better example to our enemies
R Johnson, UK
If we (the allies) want our captured troops to be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention, then we must set a better example to our enemies. That means not filming the surrendering of Iraqi soldiers, and not holding enemy combatants in wire cages for over a year without trial in Cuba. We may claim the higher moral ground, but unless we practice what we preach, we cannot expect the rest of the world to "fall into line".
R Johnson, UK
I think it is a disgrace showing these types of pictures. People who have friends and relatives out in the Gulf don't want to see how badly the troops are being treated.
Dave Warren, England
In the last month, America and its allies have seriously undermined international law. As a result the coalition has no longer any right to quote international laws and treaties such as the Geneva Convention with regard to the actions of others. Furthermore, the tightly controlled and partisan US news has completely failed to communicate the reality of war; its absurd Hollywood/ videogame like coverage (with its bespoke music and dramatic trailers of upcoming stories) is disgusting. While the Iraqi footage is unpleasant and undeniably manipulative, it does at least show another side of the war.
Fergus Kane, England
Both groups are using media as part of their war propaganda. The alliance forces are constantly using their means of communication to give certain messages to the public such as how well the troops are advancing, "no resistance", going "deep" in Iraq. The Iraqis on the other hand show civilian casualties and captured soldiers to make their point that, it's not so easy. I think it's wrong for both parties to resort to a cheap method of shaping public opinion. We want to know what's going on, not a load of rhetoric on who's right. Let us decide that.
Caner Uguz, Turkey
Cast your minds back... to Guantanamo Bay
Abid, UK
The US suddenly seem to remember the validity of Geneva Convention but cast your minds back not long ago when Afghan 'combatants' were seen in shackles heavily drugged and transported inhumanely to Guantanamo bay. Where was the Geneva Convention then?
Abid, UK
I saw the tape on al-Jazeera. I think that the US does not want the tape to be shown because it is an embarrassment for the Bush Administration. One US POW was asked of why he had come to Iraq. He said that he was "ordered to do so." It just does not show American soldiers as being clear about the reason for participating in the war. I also think that showing the video may help those who are opposed to the war, and may increase the demand of ending the war and bring the troops home.
Khalid Ibrahim, USA
We should not be showing pictures and videos of our troops in the media once they've been captured. The Geneva convention strictly prohibits this behaviour to protect these people from humiliation and propaganda value. By showing the pictures, our media are shamefully helping in breaking this rule and helping Saddam. The Iraq regime, their state controlled media, and most of the Arabian TV stations don't care about the rights of our troops, but there's no need for our media to copy them.
Ken, UK
I believe they should have been censored. These men and women have families and the last thing the families need right now is to see their loved ones paraded on television. They will be sick with worry and seeing the broadcast will only make them feel worse. We can be told of the fact that these soldiers have been taken prisoner but we do not need graphic images of them on television. We condemn Saddam for showing them on television, and we are just as culpable if we proceed to broadcast it ourselves.
Laura Thomson, London, UK
An American prisoner is considered more important than an Iraqi prisoner
Yousaf, England
I am amazed at the attitude of US and British media on this issue. I can clearly remember during the Afghanistan war where prisoners of the war were constantly interviewed while they were being handcuffed. It is the arrogance of Western media, where an American prisoner is considered more important than an Iraqi prisoner. Strange how quickly Blair remembered the Geneva convention when asked a question regarding this matter, despite of the fact that he didn't give a damn about the UN route in the end.
Yousaf, England UK
President Bush should realise that with the continuing illegal detention of Afghan prisoners in Cuba he is already occupying the moral low ground and has no moral authority whatsoever.
Colin, UK
This is a shocking and frightening thought that soldiers from the US are being shown on Iraqi television to boost moral for the Iraqi people, but then again, this is supposedly a war situation and if we are to believe what the US tell us about the complete and utter disrespect for life Saddam has are we really that surprised? It seems to me that we are quick to comment and not so quick to look at the terror and fear we are causing by being in Iraq.
Elkind, UK
Neither side should be showing footage of prisoners. The BBC website itself is breaching the convention by showing the stills of the US soldiers. All stations that show either the footage of US prisoners and/or Iraqi prisoners are breeching the convention. Both sides are engaging in overt propaganda.
Sian, UK
The fact that it has been filmed shows what the Iraqi military are like
John, UK
Yes it should have been shown. The fact that it has been filmed shows what the Iraqi military are like - it appears that they murder POWs and that they certainly humiliate them like a cat does with a mouse. Understanding that puts Saddam's regime into perspective. The footage will fuel anti-Iraq feeling. It may also be maliciously enjoyed at the POWs' expense by any of the audience who are anti American.
John, UK
I think it's important these images are not censored. There is a war going on affecting real people and we shouldn't allow ourselves to bury our heads in the sand. Those POWs looked terrified to me, and my heart goes out to them. Better we understand the implications of this war first hand than be accept a glossed over version fed to us.
Colin, Birmingham UK
The US have totally made a rod for their own back with the prisoners they hold in Cuba. From now on any country could decide to call prisoners unlawful combatants and do with them what they will. After all, there seems to be some disagreement if this was is even lawful
CF, Scotland
No - the videotape shouldn't have been broadcast by al-Jazeera, nor should the UK media be showing stills from it. By doing the latter, we are rewarding the Iraqi Government for making such footage and encouraging them to cause distress to other captured soldiers by making more. All we need is to be told that such footage is being put out by the Iraqi Government - we don't need to see it ourselves.
Simon Holroyd, UK
The Iraqis have a right to show that they have prisoners, but not to subject them to individual humiliation
Tom, UK
There is a world of difference between distant footage of groups of prisoners surrendering or being interned, and individuals being questioned and interviewed. Both are a part of the propaganda war, but one impinges on the privacy and dignity of individual prisoners. The Iraqis have a right to show that they have prisoners, but not to subject them to individual humiliation.
Tom, UK
British TV are quite happy to show live pictures of allied soldiers firing rockets into houses occupied by Iraqi fighters and then showing the Americans shouting out jubilantly as the missile hits it's target, silencing the guns of the enemy, and therefore we presume killing them. I'm sure any Iraqis watching that would be pretty disgusted so it works both ways.
Andy, UK
Should the tape have been broadcast? I actually think it should have been. It may come as a relief to their relatives that they are not dead or (apparently) being tortured as was the case with the two tornado pilots in the first war. What is more bizarre is the US Government denying throughout yesterday that the Iraqis had captured any US personnel. If they don't know where their own people are then they certainly need to start being more careful!
Dan M, UK
Absolutely not, Imagine someone from your family seeing it on the news. But what I think is interesting is that I saw it on Sky news at the same time as they explained why it's not legal according to the Geneva convention.
Linda, Sweden.
It is obscene for these prisoners to be paraded in front of the cameras but let us not forget that we have already seen Iraqi prisoners on our screens and in our newspapers. The questioning of the US prisoners undoubtedly takes the indecency of the show a step further but as far as human rights and the treatment of POWs goes the US have no grounds to complain for as long as the human right's disgrace that is Guantanamo Bay is allowed to continue. The prisoners that are there were all captured in war but the US refuses to acknowledge them as such. It must be expected that other will do the same to their servicemen and women captured in what is not universally recognised as a justifiable action.
Louise Bailey, UK
-- Zygote Little from Windsor on 3/25/03; 4:56:24 AM
Allies Risk 3000 Casualties in Baghdad - Ex-General
Mon March 24, 2003 10:17 PM ET
LONDON (Reuters) - The U.S.-led force in Iraq risks as many as 3,000 casualties in the battle for Baghdad and Washington has underestimated the number of troops needed, a top former commander from the 1991 Gulf War said on Monday.
Retired U.S. Army General Barry McCaffrey, commander of the 24th Infantry Division 12 years ago, said the U.S.-led force faced "a very dicey two to three day battle" as it pushes north toward the Iraqi capital.
"In the process if they (the Iraqis) actually fight, and that's one of the assumptions, clearly it's going to be brutal, dangerous work and we could take, bluntly, a couple to 3,000 casualties," said McCaffrey who became one of the most senior ranking members of the U.S. military following the 1991 war.
"So if they (the Americans and British) are unwilling to face up to that, we may have a difficult time of it taking down Baghdad and Tikrit up to the north west."
McCaffrey said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had misjudged the nature of the conflict.
-- Zygote Little from Windsor on 3/25/03; 4:24:30 AM
i have seen pictures of some of the artifacts in Bagdad, and I agree that it would be a shame to loose them for all time. I hope that at least some of them survived and can be rescued.
-- dark ronin from WEST LEBANON on 3/24/03; 10:58:25 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
This war is looking more and more like another Viet Nam Guerilla type war, doesnt it? Waste of 4,000 smart missiles on a stupid 'shock and awe' plan, when they could have been used to much better effect on Elite Republican Guards south of the city. Evidently the Iraqis were not shocked and awed.
Guerillas dressed as civilians. Long supply lines that are hard to protect. What is their motivation?
Since they are a nation of shopkeepers and thieves, the motivation is of course all that "loot" the US Army is bringing into the country. In Viet Nam they took everything, your boots, socks, underwear, toilet paper, etc. I was amazed to hear on BBC that US supplies are already showing up on the Black Markets in Baghdad. That means US Supply Sergeants are not wasting any time selling US equipment on the Black market, or else that 300 miles long supply line is being hit harder than we are being told. The fact that those two 7th Cav. pilots walked away from their chopper rather than blowing it up tells me US troops aint particularly gung ho over this war.
Even if we kill them at a 10 to 1 ratio, US troops will soon be weakened to the point that we will have to initiate the draft again. Another war of attrition. Iraq mothers can produce warriors faster than we can draft them.
Why dont we just declare victory and pull out before we have another My Lai Massacre or another Tet Offensive?
I was even surprised to hear that some artists guild is already accepting designs for a Gulf War Two War Memorial in DC.
One comment on bombing Saddams Palace in Baghdad. He had a priceless collection of Babylonian artifacts in there that are now gone forever.
-- Viet Nam Era Vet from Portsmouth on 3/24/03; 6:26:14 PM
It seems that your little experiment failed. By threatening to delete and edit posts, you have now alienated ValleyNet from its users. Good Luck staying in Business, if you are going to treat this forum as your own little pet project, then I will have nothing to do with it.
-- Dark Ronin from West Lebanon on 3/24/03; 6:19:34 PM
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